Episode 239 – Singing, Storytelling, and Wyoming Roots with Jill King

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I begin today's episode with a little quote from Mark Twain.

Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak.

Just because a baby can't chew it.

And folks, welcome to episode number 239.

Today's guest is Jill King, a master marketer, a business owner, rancher, who

has some really long ties to Wyoming.

Jill moved to Wyoming to fill a dream of being a singer, which led

to forming her own band, traveling the region, and eventually cutting an

album in the heart of country music.

Now, Jill is the owner of a local franchise in the publication industry,

while also with her husband running a cattle ranch right here in Wyoming.

So hold on to your buckets.

That's the right thing to say and find out more about Jill's history,

her family's history here in Wyoming, and what she's doing in the world of

business in helping businesses succeed and how relationships are so important.

Thank you for joining me here today at the Jackson Hole Connection.

It's delightful to have some of your time and learn more about you and

what you're doing in the world every day here in the Jackson Hole area.

it's great to be here and, looking forward to sharing I

offer to the community with you.

Super well, Jill, I start every episode with people giving their background of

where they were born and raised and how they landed here in the Jackson Hole area.

So, we're gonna start off right there and just keep it consistent.

After, you know, over 200 episodes, , why break a, a good streak on that

one

Yeah.

Well, I'll give you the kind of the short version.

I landed here from New York City.

I came out to be a singer.

was working in marketing, 51st and fifth and, uh, for a real estate company.

And I was singing.

at night and all the clubs, the open mics and everything.

And I was doing that for almost five years.

And I decided I just wanted trail blaze, hit the road, become a singer

full-time, hang up my marketing, hat.

And, my aunt was running the wort hotel out here.

So I called her and said, Hey, you know, can you, can I come sing

and, you know, can you help me out?

And so, I ended up singing Oliver Jackson.

I had started a cowgirl band.

I sang with the Bluegrass Band.

we had some regional, probably success opening for a lot of, regionally and then,

I went to Nashville and recorded a CD and, and went out on my own with my songwriting

real and then we moved to Austin and I, and I continued it down there.

So that's kind of how I got to Jackson Hole was, via my guitar.

All And how do you wanna share how far back that was?

it, it was a while.

Okay,

I guess 30 years ago I came out here, so

cool.

been back and forth from Texas to Wyoming for many years and, then moved

back here full-time about 12 years ago.

So

I'm glad you guys resettled here in the great state of Wyoming.

well, my husband has a love affair with Wyoming.

We have a ranch.

It's about four hours away from here.

And, uh, he raises cattle and, he just absolutely loves Wyoming.

I do too, but not the same way.

he loves prairie and love

So tell me about the singing and you said you started a cowgirl band.

What was the name of the band?

was called the Cow Patsies and, Christine Langdon, who is the

singer out of the stage coach.

she played bass, Shelly Rubrik, she played fiddle.

I played lead in's, uh, rhythm guitar, and we sang harmonies.

And yeah, we, uh, we had a whole bunch of fun with that.

And, it was, it was great.

Yeah.

And the CD that you cut, can people find that out on the worldwide

web and find some your songs?

Not quite yet, but, uh, for my birthday this month, my girls

are putting it all on Spotify.

So, stay tuned.

Excellent.

so you have some kids.

Three girls, Tennessee, Carolina, and Georgia.

who.

you know, are, are just great.

My old oldest daughter, Tennessee just had a baby.

Carolina we call Mimi.

She lives in la.

She's, uh, an art guru and then we have one in Boulder, the baby.

So

out.

Spread out the, around the area

keeping us on our toes for sure.

Awesome.

And I'd love to learn a little bit more about this ranch.

Are you open to sharing, where is it and what's the name and how I, I hear your

husband's passion, but it, it takes Big, bold belief to start raising cattle.

That's not an easy undertaking.

It, is, and, and Wyoming is now easy.

A place to, cattle either.

I mean, the ranch is outside of Lander.

It's actually called Jeffrey City, which is right near Muddy Gap, and next to

a historic site called The Split Rock.

So, it's got a lot of history out there, but it's, you

know, it's, it's cattle land.

It's not, you know, it's not Yellowstone, it's not it's not, doesn't look like

the Yellowstone at any rate, yeah, we, uh, leased the Slit Rock Ranch next

I'm probably not saying that right.

But anyway, we have a lot of land out there, and, he raises and

cares for other people's cattle.

So he's got a pretty big operation out there and really loves what he does.

But, it's, it's great.

It's a great, To balance for what I do in Jackson Hole and be able to

go out there and ride you know, kind of support him and his endeavor and,

his love for ranching and ranching kind of the old fashioned way.

So neat.

Yeah

I've heard some of the history of Jeffers.

It's Jeffery City.

Jeffries City

Yeah, I, I know I've heard some of the history before, but, I

don't know it enough to repeat it, but it was pretty fascinating

kind of is.

And, and it was a boom town.

and, and then it, I mean, literally there's like 10

people that live there now.

I mean, it was, it was a booming mining town many years ago.

And, mean, now you just really drive right through it.

And, of course the Split Rock is kind of a historic site.

That's kind of one of the landmarks on the Oregon Trail and, you know,

the ruts and everything out there.

It's, it's, it's neat that way because it's, it's definitely the route

where people were, you know, coming from Casper and the Oregon Trail.

So, you know, you can still see pieces and parts.

of the trail and and it's neat, so,

I, I know there was a bunch of years ago I did a road trip with my first dog that

I had Flash, and that was one of the spots that we stopped was Split Rock.

And it is, it's just fascinating to think about.

You look at that terrain, it's like, my gosh, people did

to make it out west is just

remarkable

is.

And then, and that's why they went right through Wyoming, up to Montana,

, because in Montana, uh, Wyoming was the last state to homestead, you know.

and grandfather actually homesteaded here, over near Doll Center still, city

or center, I believe, over near Douglas.

And, it was in the thirties and they had a saw house and you know, all the, all the

three things that you were supposed to do.

You've got, I think 40 acres of land and you had to improve it, put

water on it and put a home on it.

And he's like living, he was like living history for Wyoming.

of course, I mean it's, it's just really hard to make a go of it in

Wyoming at, you know, the depression hit they just make a go of it.

Wyoming is just not an easy place to, Ranch or farm or whatever.

It's got a lot going against it weather-wise.

I, I'm very curious to know where did your grandfather end up going?

Was he married at that time when he was out here, and then where did he end up

going after he couldn't make a go of

it

Um, so my grandmother was a teacher and my grandfather a cowboy, he, they

were both from Scandinavia, Danish, and Swedish where their families had ho

had come over from, Sweden and Denmark.

And they ended up going back to Nebraska where, all their family

was from because, they gave it a go.

They gave it a good go, but, it just, just kind of fell apart with the depression.

But yeah, they went back to Nebraska and, you know, had a small farm and everything.

They ended up in Loveville, Wyoming afterwards, and they

owned the best Western over there.

So, he had a myriad of things going on, but, I am very proud of that heritage.

My mom didn't, my mom grew up in Wyoming till about like 18, then she went away to

nursing school and then joined the Navy.

So we were the city cousins that kinda lived a different life and it was always

intriguing to us to come out here for the summer and see Wyoming and, you

know, ride horses and do all that.

you know, I didn't, I wasn't raised out here, but I had a love for Wyoming too,

in a different way than my husband.

Well, you have some deep roots here.

I do, and, and it's super neat when I look back on it.

And we have a lot of, I have a lot of cousins across the state and, when

you see the pictures of the sod house and, all that, I mean, it's super

impressive that they even tried it.

So,

A lot of respect for those folks who lived in.

I mean, we complain about living in a small space.

I mean, in, in today's society, much less a sod house, which was

probably no bigger than 10 by 12.

I don't remember the size of it, but it wasn't big for sure.

no, no.

And so your mom was in the Navy.

Was she, did she serve in, in, in a war?

Um, she did not, she was a Navy nurse.

And she met my dad.

he was a Navy officer and yeah, they had a Navy career.

And I'm a Navy kid, so we, that's why we didn't, we lived

everywhere but kind of Wyoming

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

There's not a Navy branch

here,

that, yeah, let's put the Navy in Wyoming.

We do have

the Air

that's true.

Got that?

and you.

Let's go back to you being in New York City and you were working for

a marketing firm in New York and you decide, I'm going to Wyoming.

You had roots in Wyoming, but you're like, I'm going to Jackson, and what

was Change for you, what did it feel like to go from the pace of New York

City to the pace of Jackson Hole, Wyoming, you said about 30 years ago?

So I've been here for 25 years now, so you're only five years ahead of me.

But it was slow then.

I, and so I'm really fascinated to know, how did you adjust to that?

well, I had a wonder lust sure, and I had a real strong desire that I wanted to,

to see if I could really become a singer.

And so, I guess that was driving it and, and actually

I had all my stuff in storage.

I had every intention giving it a go out here and then going back to New York.

But, uh, of one thing led to another and I realized that I was ready to

leave the city and, I knew I wouldn't like get married and live there.

I was not.

I knew that wasn't gonna be the life that I wanted.

so I was kind of ready.

and I mean, it, it is like getting a PhD in life and I loved every minute

of being there and took advantage of a lot of stuff, but, I just knew

that it was, it run its course.

And I was in the whole folk world of like Suzanne Vega and Sean

Colvin and just a lot of the really cool folkies stuff like that.

And it was very inspiring, know, that I wanted to kind of break out

and write music and sing and, was a perfect backdrop because I knew people

out here and I, I don't even really know how it all happened, exactly.

But, when I got out here, I realized that yeah, the pace was a little slow, but,

and I was probably the only girl in town that had makeup on, The, the, the ratio

of cowboys to, to girls was pretty cool.

It was like eight to one that was interesting too.

So, had a lot of appeal its own small town way.

And of course Jackson Hole, who doesn't love it, right?

So,

for sure.

Who, who doesn't love it?

And you still, you.

There's not many cowgirl bands.

That I've heard of and I give you big kudos starting your own band and

putting yourself out there, then no less going to Nashville to cut a record

and, you know, make a, a true go of it.

That's, that's awesome.

Yeah.

I.

I gave a pretty good shot at it, but I knew when we had a, started having a

family and we moved to Austin when I, I was, I'd had Tennessee and it was still

plugging along trying to, you know, I made, I cut tape or CD there as well.

And um, it just lost it kind of, once we started having a family, I wanted to be

a mom and kind of lost, I didn't wanna be out at night and you have to do that

It just transitioned into me being a mom.

So it was, it was wonderful when it happened, but

Mm-hmm.

. it tickles me that you said cut a tape,

I mean, I, everyone still calls it cutting an album, but like, I'm pretty sure I

think I did have a CD off that one too.

Yeah, I did.

But, it was definitely that era of tapes, where you hand P, you

know, you put one song on a tape and you go pitch it with this tape.

And mean, yeah, definitely That was a long time ago,

and so, Other than running a ranch, you now have adult children and

living, you're in Jackson some of the time you go to the ranch sometimes.

What occupies your time now?

So, yeah, I, I bought the franchise, the Scout guy, Jackson Hole from Megan Murk.

She, she started it here.

it's a national publication.

and you buy the franchise for the town.

And then I bought it from her.

I was kind of looking for something to do as kind of an empty nester

using my marketing background.

and it appealed to me because it, you wear a lot of different hats.

you know, you have events.

You, you sell ads, do the photo shoots, you do the photo styling for the shoots.

write editorial pieces.

do social media.

And so it had a lot of appeal.

just in the wide range of things and just serving the community, like

with advertising and supporting, you know, growing their businesses.

And then, I started the Scout Guide Bozeman here a year ago.

So I'm, I'm doing both cities now.

I'm doing both, uh, publications.

So,

And what's the similarities between Bozeman and Jackson?

Yeah.

I was seeing, I was seeing a lot of businesses do business in both towns.

I mean, just, there's a lot.

Cowboy coffee, pinky cheese, W R J, Bella Cosa.

you know, Stio is in the, you know, they're the, the lists.

And I just saw how joined our communities are and a lot of people traveling

will start in Jackson, go through the park, end up in Bozeman or vice versa.

And I was just seeing a trend that it would be a really great

sister market for me to own.

that it had a lot of crossover businesses and a lot of crossover tourist traffic.

And they're both mountain towns very similar.

Not in size, but similar in businesses and whatnot.

And I felt like I kind of had a good handle on Jackson, so I

was ready to start in Bozeman.

It was exciting cuz it's a bigger community with a lot of more

businesses and I enjoy going up there, you know, once a month to.

what I need to do.

But yeah, it's definitely a trek between Jackson Hole and Bozeman or

through the park right to Montana.

So

Mm-hmm.

it was a good

it is a trek and there's several ways to make it over there for sure.

more hairier than others.

that is true.

We've made it up by, um, s Quake Lake.

Where's

that

you been over by Quake Lake?

Nope.

Oh, you, it's, um, you can either access Quake Lake, if you're coming out

of West Yellowstone to Bozeman, you'd make a left at a certain junction.

or if you go through Enis, before you go straight to West Yellowstone, you

make a left and you follow the river.

I forget what river it is, and then you would end up making a right.

But back in the seven fifties, sixties, there was a earthquake

and it created this lake.

And several people, quite a few people died from between the earthquake

Oh, that's why they call it

quake like

lake.

Mm-hmm.

, it formed this dam of the river and then the dam broke as well.

And yeah, it caused some damage.

my wife's father, I think, was in Jackson at the time, and I think they

said he could say they could feel it.

Oh wow.

I might've seen it.

I've been in several snowstorms driving through there recently, so covered up.

But, nonetheless, I, I, I enjoy, I enjoy it up there and I enjoy going back and

forth and working out pretty well, so.

And, and tell me about the editorials that you are producing in the Scout guide.

What, what could people expect to see in there?

Yeah, well, it's great.

I mean, I think we're a lifestyle publication with the base of like

educating the community on this business.

So I do it through those.

four ways.

You know, we present it through print and then move it over, cross

pollinated over to social, and then we write editorial pieces.

you know, like a wedding blog or a blog on, you know, a 43 architects or Coosa.

Just a, a lifestyle feature on that business, but it's just a way.

present their business one more time to an online audience.

and those blogs are great for them cuz that's seo and that's a different way

for somebody to touch your business.

And digital is super big now.

I mean, a lot of people are moving away from print.

um, which I really don't believe in.

I still believe that it's a foundation for marketing, digital is hot and,

people want that digital presence.

So the blogs serve that form of it.

And, I, I'm very loyal to who, whoever gave me advertising money

that year, I try to just stick with blogs on those people for that year.

and not really do a lot of, you know, outside of that.

I mean, I do have like a dining guide and I do, I am writing a wedding

blog and I do include some businesses that are not in the guide, just, but

for the most part I'm driven for.

you know, for people that have given me advertising money to try

to move them up, the marketing ladder and digital marketing's hot.

So it's a great way to serve them.

Digital marketing is hot.

We see that every day in in, in the business.

businesses that I have for sure.

And it's wonderful that you are committed to the people that are

paying you for their advertising, paying you for advertising um that

you support them in that in that

I I've had people say to me like well you only post on you post on the same people

all the time And I'm like well I you know that's that's the idea They gave me

advertising money and yeah I do some I do some lifestyle some Jackson Hole I try to

try to be in you know Interesting But you know the value in with the Scout guide

is that I've got their back you know and I've I've really working hard for them and

there's a lot of different publications in town that just wanna put everybody and

mention everybody and whatnot but we just try to we try to limit it I can't write

blogs on everybody in town you know and and it doesn't make sense So know I would

like to I like to present people in a very lifestyle way and Like you do like you're

you're picking things about me that no one would ever find out unless you had a

conversation or you read an article about them in a different slant rather than okay

this is my business This is what I do and I want you to buy my business from me You

know Or I wanna buy a product So people love they love the backstory you know

I like to know the backstory I enjoy it too I appreciate it because we're all

people I think at times as a business person you get identified as the business

versus as who you are as an individual

you've seen it over and over but it's the like know and trust factor and

people people buy people and sometimes that's hard for me personally because

then I feel like they're not buying me but I'm serving a product right And

I'm the the trust factor behind that product And they people buy people you

know and they buy they wanna learn about what your product is through you And

it's important It's an important part of it You know having people trust you

and stick to what you say you're gonna do for them and you know be consistent

so true Hey Jill we're gonna take a quick break to get a word from our sponsor

and then I want to bring this back into what you're doing now to what marketing

was like when you were in New York

great

Jill welcome back we've learned a lot about how you have deep family roots

here in the state of Wyoming and how you bought a franchise called The Scout

Guide and you brought your marketing experience from a previous place in your

life a previous career and applying it to Here in in Jackson and and also in

Bozeman and you were just saying people by people could you expand on that give a

little bit more detail of what that means

Well I I think it's just important to know that you're not just trying to push

a product in in front of somebody That are the the trust factor behind that and

you've gotta prove that to people You know that you're In it for the for the

long haul you've got integrity or you know there's there's substance behind you

as a person when they get to know you as a person they're more likely to buy your

product I'm not saying they do but every time but they're more likely to see that

kind of consistency and I and I and I model that in my own business so that I

show the businesses that are in the scout guide how to do that I feel like you know

I'm the not the mentor necessarily but I'm the of modeling it and then hey this

is what you need to do in your business for people to buy you You know I see

businesses show up and then they leave and And I see 'em do all crazy stuff around

here and I'm just like oh you know just stay the course you know hang in there

there's no overnight success

really isn't there There's really no easy way to it And some days are discouraging

I'm not really the a salesperson and sales is really a lot of what I do and

so I have to kind turn it so that so that I'm I'm offering a service and

a product who I am and and what I can do for them rather than just buy an ad

in Magazine you know So for me it's a little bit bigger than that and I take

it pretty seriously of like who I am And you know I think being older helps too

is that I I'm not I kind of see it from a comprehensive perspective you know it's

tough you know I mean advertising sales you know it's uh there's trends in a lot

of things and right now people are like anti print or and very prodigal And so

you have to kind of present the strengths of both or all in one And you know it's

selling and I hate wearing the sales hat tell you the truth I think when you when

Oh I know that

I mean I really it is it is not my favorite hat to wear but I think when

when you're trying to serve them and serve them well you can you're selling your

service rather than you know like Hey can you buy an ad for me Type thing So

Mm-hmm Sure Now I'm this is all very interesting and fascinating but I I

enjoy tying together history to current and what's relevant now Marketing

is different now than it used to be but there's also some core tenets of

it that will always be the same I'm I'm curious to know from your your

perspective what's what are some say three items that are different nowadays

but then what are some of those core tenants Maybe two or three of ' that

will always be the same for marketing and I you probably said one of 'em is

you're selling to people you gotta tell a story the background So I'm I'm very

curious to to know from your professional opinion you know that perspective

Well I think I did in in New York was this was back in the day where you worked

on an annual report like half the year and and that catalog that went out to the

um investors was mean that was golden It was print and people looked at it they

read we didn't have the internet so they were like this was compiling all the

information but it was still a visible way to connect with the investors or the

buyers I guess you would say And to me it was print and that visible product is

still really key I it still connects to me from that era to this this era you know

there's more ways to do it now selling that message now with like social media

and everything but still it still has a visible component to it know you're

still posting a photo you're posting that visible connection to people And I

think that that's one thing that I see I mean even in 30 years is that photography

and the visible touching somebody that way is is still key I mean telling the

story through photography to me is still like golden But yeah so I guess of the

other tenants would be just you know storytelling and then also editorial

and telling that story through a written piece I'm I read something recently about

um that people are going back to reading blogs Like there was guess the last three

or four years where blogs weren't that important but now everybody's seeing more

of the value and taking the time to read those Like it's a mini a mini article

that you would find in the newspaper or whatever But they're finding it online

people are hungry for substance it looks like I thought it was very interesting

I wonder what changed that people are stopped reading 'em or pulled

away but now are pulling back

I think that mean I I'm just guessing here but I think the availability of

'em and linking the ability to link on like story or Instagram and link it

through Pinterest And so it gives you this really quick opportunity to click

over there Beforehand I think you had to kind of search around to try to figure

out where the blog was and where it lived and and I the accessibility uh

has changed mean I know just now just like when I link something in a story

to an article and just watch the hits on it got a lot more accessibility but

used to live over in WordPress or live somewhere where you had to like dig

around to try to find that blog you know

Hmm

and I know the scout guide our platforms have changed a lot to accommodate that

So know we can incorporate a blog in our weekly email blast where couldn't

do that before I just feel like it it's more accessible to kind pop over

and read a a quick blurb on somebody

Fascinating how it all changes over

I know And it's changing every day and up with it is is fun and exciting and you

know trying to stay on top of it is great And you know like with the whole advent

of video and everybody's like oh gosh it's just video video video You know and

that that's hot and it is But it's not everything either you people are still

hungry for I think content and maybe not a long article but editorial pieces So

going back to the annual report it's interesting that what you would work

on My dad was a stockbroker and my grandfather always had invested After the

depression he invested and he paid his debts off He invested in stocks and so

as a kid I would as well and I remember getting the annual report for Nike and

Oh my gosh

Mm-hmm

as a kid Yeah they were cool to look at They were very engaging to mention

the financials that were in there but just the way they were laid out

in the in the content the editorials that were in there explaining

what the company was doing It was

It was the main marketing piece for well we were a real estate division

out of from Metropolitan Life Insurance Company And that real estate division

then had products or pin well they served pension funds then they would group real

estate Properties into a fund and people would invest in that fund And so we did

quarterly reports for those funds not like we had a shopping center grouping

And you know I mean and it would literally half of the year was just for the annual

report and By the time you did it all the data was like old again then so you're

just working on this annual report all the time But we also did like quarterly

reports for our investors that showed how the you know shopping centers were

doing and how their money was being invested and stuff So a very basic

perspective you know it gave me a very good Background in marketing and realizing

what people are I mean they really love photography and they wanna see vis visibly

and that still has not changed at all

You're very attuned to your world the world of editorials marketing publications

What are your top three pictures that give you a feeling and what is that feeling

And it doesn't have to be it can be with a scout guide it can be with anything

So my top three photos that that we've taken

pH photos Yeah

My I guess my very top one is so I'm also a stylist I have a styling company called

Styling The New West And so we did a shoot up at Flat Creek Ranch We we used to have

an outfitting business before my husband did ranching it's and we were we owned

the Flat Creek I guess permit up there and we would start at the Flat Creek Ranch I

don't know if you know much about the Flat Creek Ranch up there but probably to me is

hard to say the prettiest place in Jackson Hole But uh we did a shoot up there and

you know the geese were flying off and fly fishing And I literally it is breathtaking

and not many people find their way up there you know because it's very hard to

get to and it's this really pristine it's not really a dude ranch I guess it's a

guest ranch but I You do dude I mean you do ride horses and whatnot but fly fishing

But it's absolutely one of my favorite photos ever And just because it evokes

that feeling of that real silence of being out on the water and you with your fly

rod and you know just telling that story of what that feels like you know in this

really beautiful serene place you know and capturing that So that's probably one of

my favorite photos Linley Russ took it And it just evokes that we've taken a lot of

really great photos over the years we did one with new thought digital and it had

the Sleeping Indian in the background and it was beautiful It was just a the guys

wanted to be on pull this velvet so it was a velvet or leather sofa on the museum

and just had this very silhouette of the sleeping Indian in the back And it's nice

I mean I a lot of the other editors say you just have such a great backdrop Your

photos are so great And then the guide because I mean you're so lucky I I'm not

in Cincinnati you know Cincinnati's got a lot of great things in it but you can

always rely on the background here know the environment So I don't know Some

other shots that we've taken are probably more just wedding photos that know evoke

that happiness of destination wedding here and getting married and is such a

big part of our community probably be it

It's a special place to be married My wife and I were married out

here We did it on the Forest

Oh you

out on uh yeah up in Black Canyon her grandfather built a cabin there on

Forest Service in holding back in the

What

and her dad still has it It was like one of those 99 year leases I mean it's no

electricity no running water and so We did our katuba signing at the cabin and then

married in just around the area over there I mean somebody could have come darting

on a mountain bike through the wedding but

and that would've been alright too right Because I

it would've been alright

kinda what everybody's expecting out here is some some kind of wild card cuz

It is It's great That's a great story

it's one very special desk for sure Well Jill I so appreciate you taking

the time outta your day to talk about your background and what you're doing

with the Scout guide and helping people share their stories here in in Jackson

Well thanks for having me on and I think maybe I need to be interviewing you next

time so we can dig in and find out a little bit more about the wedding story So

my friend Jim Oje and when I interviewed him he started asking me questions

So it was more flipping the mic

Yeah Well it probably is your turn next time right

Yes it will be Well thank you Jill You have a great day and I wish you all all

the best with a successful season this

you.

We could use it the, we had a lot of Cavs status this spring

with the winter, so we'll cross our But thanks for having me on.

You're welcome.

Take care, Joe.

To learn more about joking and her connections to Wyoming and

her business, the Scout Guide of Jackson Hole, visit the Jackson hole

connection.com, episode number 239.

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