Episode 244 – Pendergraft Outfitters: Carrying on a Family Legacy with Peter Linn
Peter Linn is a father, husband, rancher, 5th generation local, and the owner of Pendergraft Outfitters.
In this episode, Peter shares his passion for his work and the joy he finds in waking up every day, excited to do what he loves. He talks about his long family history in the valley and what brought him back after living up in Alaska.
Stephan and Peter chat about some of the unique and amazing creatures he has seen while working in the backcountry, including wolverines, grizzly bears, wolves and cougars. He then goes on to discuss the challenges and adventures of expanding his operations to a ranch in Kinnear, Wyoming, where he is learning to farm alfalfa and grass. The conversation then delves into the various types of trips Peter offers, including horse-supported hiking trips and progressive travel. Peter then elaborates on Pendergraft Outfitter’s camp, which offers a more comfortable experience with wall tents and a cook tent.
Stephan and Peter also discuss the logistics of pack trips, including the importance of holding onto horses overnight. Peter shares his personal experiences of waking up to missing horses and emphasizes the need for horses to feel safe and secure in their surroundings.
This conversation offers a glimpse into the ranching and outfitting life, showcasing the remarkable adventures and obstacles encountered in the beautiful wilderness of the Tetons and the surrounding areas.
Learn more about Peter, his family history and Pendergraft Outfitters at PendergraftOutfitters.com.
This week’s episode is supported in part by Teton County Solid Waste and Recycling, reminding residents and commercial businesses of Teton County’s food waste programs; the next frontier material in the quest to achieve the County’s goal to reduce, aiming for zero waste. More at TetonCountyWY.gov or at @RoadToZeroWaste.JH on Instagram.
Support also comes from The Jackson Hole Marketplace. The Deli at Jackson Hole Marketplace offers ready-made soups, sandwiches, breakfast burritos, and hot lunch specials. More at JHMarketplace.com
Want to be a guest on The Jackson Hole Connection? Email us at connect@thejacksonholeconnection.com. Marketing and editing support by Michael Moeri (michaelmoeri.com)
Transcript
You are tuned into the Jackson hole, connection, sharing, fascinating stories
Speaker:of people connected to Jackson Hole.
Speaker:I am truly grateful for each of you for tuning in today and support
Speaker:for this podcast comes from:
Speaker:Today I begin this episode with a quote from Confucius Study history, study.
Speaker:History in History lies All the Secrets of statecraft.
Speaker:And welcome to episode number 244.
Speaker:And my guest today is Peter Lynn, a multi-generation rancher and
Speaker:outfitter here in Western Wyoming.
Speaker:Peter's roots go back here in the valley to the early 19 hundreds
Speaker:and think about how does a family survive ranching and outfitting.
Speaker:For so many years in this area.
Speaker:Well, Peter is gonna share with us what it does take as he is now
Speaker:raising the next generation of the Lynn family right here in the valley.
Speaker:We also get to talk about where Peter goes for his outfitting and the
Speaker:designation of the forest, which he uses.
Speaker:For his outfitting, uh, services.
Speaker:So I, I think if you like a little bit of Wyoming history and the Great
Speaker:West, you will certainly be engaged and enjoy Peter's interview today.
Speaker:Peter, welcome to the Jackson Hole Connection.
Speaker:I am so amped to have you here today and get to hear about your family
Speaker:history and what you are doing to keep your families ranch and generations
Speaker:still living here in this valley.
Speaker:well.
Speaker:Thanks s
Speaker:Stephan.
Speaker:I'm happy to be here.
Speaker:I'm gonna open up the door here, let people know I tried starting a
Speaker:recording on a first piece of equipment.
Speaker:It did not work.
Speaker:You have been very, very patient with me.
Speaker:We're now on a different piece of software to get this recording going.
Speaker:I appreciate your patience.
Speaker:some days things work, some days things don't
Speaker:work.
Speaker:Isn't
Speaker:that the truth?
Speaker:I'm, I wouldn't be surprised if you get to experience that in your business.
Speaker:Oh, every day.
Speaker:Pretty much.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, Peter, you are one of the few people that are multi-generational
Speaker:that I get to talk to.
Speaker:give a short brief of where you were born and raised, and a little bit of
Speaker:background of your family history, please.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I was born and raised in Jackson, Wyoming.
Speaker:I'm 47 years old.
Speaker:I am the fourth generation.
Speaker:and we live here on our family homestead in Wilson, Wyoming.
Speaker:There is a fifth generation.
Speaker:I have a six year old daughter and hopefully she's gonna take
Speaker:up the reins when I'm done.
Speaker:Uh, my great-granddad homesteaded in Jackson in 1905.
Speaker:He'd showed up, five or six years earlier and it took him a
Speaker:couple years to get homesteaded.
Speaker:and my great-grand, or my granddad was.
Speaker:born here.
Speaker:he inherited a big chunk of the ranch and his sister inherited, uh, the other chunk.
Speaker:And, uh, my dad and his brothers and sisters were able to buy it
Speaker:from their parents and here we sit.
Speaker:That's beautiful maintaining and keeping a ranch alive has gotta be way more
Speaker:difficult than just passing down a house.
Speaker:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker:There's something to do every day.
Speaker:And you know, like I said earlier, like ranching in Jackson Hole,
Speaker:uh, it's not a great place.
Speaker:There's just such a long winter.
Speaker:you really can't grow very many cows and then it's probably a little bit
Speaker:difficult to grow very much hay.
Speaker:so it's always been kind of anything you can do to hold onto your ground.
Speaker:And Jackson Hole has been ranching and outfitting has always been a part of what.
Speaker:Sustained my family and allowed us to stay here.
Speaker:And
Speaker:you are now carrying on that tradition of
Speaker:outfitting.
Speaker:I am.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Our current outfit is called Pendergraph Outfitters.
Speaker:couple years ago we bought a new permit from a, a great old guy named Paul Gilroy.
Speaker:And, so we have some of our old permits and a few new ones, and we
Speaker:have a main camp up in the Buffalo River in the Teton Wilderness.
Speaker:What permit did you buy
Speaker:from Mr.
Speaker:Gilroy?
Speaker:Uh, he called it Gilroy outfitting, so it was mostly up
Speaker:there in the Teton wilderness.
Speaker:It's on the South Fork of the Buffalo River and we call the camp the Pendergraph
Speaker:Camp, uh, which is kind of special for us cuz my great-granddad was in business
Speaker:with a guy named Slim Pendergraft.
Speaker:And I guess people thought enough of him to name a, a couple different meadows.
Speaker:There's an upper pendergraph and a lower Pendergraph meadow, there's a peak and our
Speaker:main camp is right below Pendergraft Peak.
Speaker:I've
Speaker:heard about in the wilderness, Teton wilderness of the thoroughfare.
Speaker:Is that where you are taking people?
Speaker:Uh, the thoroughfare is, uh, it's a really neat place.
Speaker:Uh, we do visit there a little bit.
Speaker:the thoroughfare is where several rivers come together.
Speaker:and that's on the north side of the Buffalo Plateau.
Speaker:the Buffalo River flows off the south side of the buffalo plateau.
Speaker:the thoroughfare, uh, is where the thoroughfare river and the upper
Speaker:part of the Yellowstone River.
Speaker:Meat and uh, I think that in the old days was probably where a lot of trappers
Speaker:meet, which is probably why they, they got the name, the thoroughfare.
Speaker:Do you still trap?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Still allowed?
Speaker:Uh, I think it is still allowed, but no, we don't do any trapping.
Speaker:Was your
Speaker:great-grandfather or grandfather were, did they do trapping?
Speaker:Uh, I don't think so.
Speaker:I mean, it was quite a long time after the fur trade and, you know, I think my
Speaker:dad and his brothers would play around with things like that, but no, they
Speaker:weren't, they weren't trappers really.
Speaker:You know, there's, uh, we've been in the hunting business for quite a long time.
Speaker:in the beginning.
Speaker:I think hunting was really all the, the tourists were pretty much interested in
Speaker:doing, but before long, you know, Jackson Hole, a lot of guest ranches sprung up.
Speaker:That was one of the real early industries in Jackson Hole.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And um, so that started people getting interested in visiting all these
Speaker:really cool places up in the mountains and people started doing pack trips.
Speaker:So do you guys offer the services of guest ranching as well, or are
Speaker:you just focusing on the outfitting?
Speaker:That's a, that's a good question.
Speaker:our family is involved in the guest ranch, it's called the Lynn
Speaker:Canyon Ranch over in Victor, Idaho.
Speaker:And myself and my mom and dad and my aunt and uncle were, kind of put
Speaker:that together At this point, my aunt and uncle just own it, but we do
Speaker:have a guest ranch in the family.
Speaker:you know, in the end it's all sort of the same.
Speaker:You're just welcoming people to Jackson Hole and, and showing them
Speaker:some of the cool things to see here.
Speaker:I've been to a few
Speaker:weddings over there.
Speaker:It's a
Speaker:magnificent spot.
Speaker:Yeah, that was really fun when my, when my grandparents decided they were gonna sell
Speaker:the ranch on this side and move over there cause it's a little warmer over there.
Speaker:Not much, but a little bit.
Speaker:Maybe you can grow a garden a little easier.
Speaker:and then my dad and his brothers and sisters got together and they
Speaker:bought the ranch from, on this side from their parents and, and that's
Speaker:why we're still able to be here.
Speaker:That's beautiful.
Speaker:Now let's talk about outfitting has much changed in the world of outfitting
Speaker:from when your great-grandfather and slim Pendergraph were, were doing it
Speaker:to now when you're doing outfitting.
Speaker:You know, compared to everything else in this world, I don't think
Speaker:very much has, you know, the gears maybe evolved a little bit.
Speaker:We have coolers and things like that, but for the most part, you
Speaker:know, the saddles are really similar.
Speaker:doing pretty much the same thing.
Speaker:Um, you know, they didn't have chainsaws or anything, and we don't either.
Speaker:well, let's, let's clarify that When you're out in the wilderness, You can't
Speaker:take a chain, you can't use a chainsaw.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We are, we are just blessed in this country to have such a big wilderness
Speaker:system and to be able to go into a place, uh, that's relatively untrammeled by,
Speaker:by humans and doesn't have motors and doesn't have, well, sometimes there is
Speaker:a cell phone unfortunately, but, but it doesn't have wheels and it's really
Speaker:a pretty primitive, place to visit.
Speaker:what's it like for the type of trips and the length of time that you
Speaker:would take people out now compared to when your great-grandfather or and
Speaker:grandfather were taking people out?
Speaker:Well, you know, the stories that we hear about my great-granddad,
Speaker:and we have some old brochures and stuff from when he was doing it.
Speaker:they would do two 30 day hunts a year, and people would come from around the
Speaker:country on to the end of the rail railroad over in Victor, Idaho, and they'd get
Speaker:a ride over Teton Pass and a buggy or.
Speaker:Maybe on a horse and they'd come to our ranch here in Wilson and they'd
Speaker:get outfitted and load up the wagon with all the supplies as they need.
Speaker:And they'd head off up into Grand Teton National Park or before it was a park
Speaker:or up into the Teton wilderness, and they'd spend a do a 30 day hunt, and
Speaker:they'd probably get several of the different species along the way and share
Speaker:with some folks what some of those species are.
Speaker:That would, that they would've
Speaker:hunted?
Speaker:You know, I think probably the most popular one, even
Speaker:back then was hunting elk.
Speaker:You know, this is a famous place to come hunt a big elk.
Speaker:but there's also, you know, great mule deer, sheep, moose, maybe even bears.
Speaker:You know, I don't think there was a lot of grizzly bears.
Speaker:There might have been, but I think they would hunt a black bear.
Speaker:And was there a
Speaker:period of time when the bison.
Speaker:They would not have seen any bison or do you ever see, do the
Speaker:bison make it that far back into the wilderness of where you are?
Speaker:You know, I don't know about that.
Speaker:Um, I don't know if there would've been bison in the valley at that point or not.
Speaker:Uhhuh.
Speaker:Um, at this point we don't really see 'em.
Speaker:We see 'em when we're driving up to the trail head, but we don't
Speaker:see 'em up in the mountains.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Of course, we are on the south side of the buffalo plateau, so
Speaker:at some point there must have been some buffalo up on top of it.
Speaker:good point.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm curious about some of the animals that maybe we don't always see very much.
Speaker:So if we're hiking around here, we can see some big horn sheep, might
Speaker:see some goats, but there's some other animals that certainly live out here
Speaker:that we know that, that are out here.
Speaker:but we might not see 'em as much.
Speaker:have you ever come across.
Speaker:Signs of or seen Wolverine being back there.
Speaker:I have, I've seen I think one Wolverine for sure.
Speaker:up in the Tetons Uhhuh at, at pretty close range.
Speaker:I was sitting on some rocks and I saw him and he kind of saw me
Speaker:and he walked behind the one tree that was there and disappeared.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Um, they kind of pretend like they don't see you, but they
Speaker:have a pretty distinctive gate.
Speaker:They kind of amble along.
Speaker:Uh, I've seen several up in Alaska, but I think that one for sure, and, and
Speaker:several possible sightings down here.
Speaker:I think you're one of the few people that I've ever spoken to
Speaker:that's actually seen a Wolverine.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:It's a pretty cool animal.
Speaker:What are some other
Speaker:animals that, unless people are out there in the wilderness area
Speaker:that you might not really see?
Speaker:Oh geez.
Speaker:you know, I don't know.
Speaker:We do see, grizzly bears quite a bit more and more every year.
Speaker:Um, and nowadays we're lucky enough to have some wolves out there.
Speaker:We don't see 'em very often, but you know, every year we'll see some wolves.
Speaker:Now with the wolves.
Speaker:Is there much interaction?
Speaker:Uh, if you don't see a much I'm taking it, there's probably not a
Speaker:whole lot of interaction between you, you as an outfitter and them.
Speaker:Oh no, there's not really any interaction.
Speaker:I mean, people worry about 'em when we talk about 'em on every trip, but
Speaker:they really, you know, they don't bother us or anything like that.
Speaker:Um, we do see and find where they've, Where they've caught elk a few times.
Speaker:Uhhuh, uh, in fact, last year when we rode into our camp, uh, there was a
Speaker:dead elk in the river that was probably killed by ri by the wolves in about 200
Speaker:yards downstream from where our camp was.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And um, we did see a few wolves coming into that.
Speaker:And what do you take with
Speaker:you for protection against the wolves if you were to have a interaction
Speaker:with wolves?
Speaker:I, I don't worry about anything with wolves.
Speaker:Wolves don't attack people.
Speaker:It's not a problem.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Um, you know, we do have to be pretty careful with the grizzly bears.
Speaker:so we take a variety of things.
Speaker:We'll have, uh, certainly some bear spray.
Speaker:we'll have some dogs with us and those are usually kind of
Speaker:give us some early warning.
Speaker:Grizzly bears don't prey on people either.
Speaker:You just have to be careful not to surprise them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, you know, you're, you just travel, like you should be traveling
Speaker:in groups and making noise so you don't come around the corner and, you
Speaker:know, and, and surprise the bears.
Speaker:And then, you know, we'll usually have a pistol along too.
Speaker:And does it make a
Speaker:difference traveling with a dog?
Speaker:So you don't surprise that
Speaker:bear?
Speaker:Oh, the dogs just have such a good nose.
Speaker:a lot of times our dogs have told us there's bears way, way
Speaker:before we've ever seen them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Sounds like I should hike more with a dog.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I have an Dale Terrier that I take with me as my bear dog.
Speaker:And in the wintertime she, she's also an avalanche dog at
Speaker:the Jackson Mountain Resort.
Speaker:Oh, really?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Are you involved with some stuff out there at Jackson Hole
Speaker:Mountain Resort in the winter?
Speaker:I am.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:That's my w my winter job is, uh, on the, on the Jacksonville Ski Patrol.
Speaker:Are you
Speaker:okay, so again, Jack of all trades, you gotta do something in the
Speaker:winter survive.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Every successful outfit has got a, got a job in the winter as well.
Speaker:Uhhuh.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Now,
Speaker:where else are you taking people For your trips that people, so over the
Speaker:years we've collected several permits.
Speaker:Uh, my dad's original permit was, uh, mostly in the Tetons,
Speaker:um-huh From the I Idaho side.
Speaker:So the west side of the Tetons, all the way from the Yellowstone
Speaker:line down to Teton Pass.
Speaker:And so we do do several trips a year over there.
Speaker:a lot of those trips end up being hiking trips and they're
Speaker:horse supported hiking trips.
Speaker:Uh, we like to do go down the, Teton Crest Trail every year.
Speaker:Um, but the Tetons, they both have a fair amount of people in them
Speaker:and they're also a pretty high elevation sensitive place to go.
Speaker:So we try to take a few less horses than we do on some of our other trips.
Speaker:so the hiking trips work quite well there.
Speaker:And then we like to visit the Grove VAs every year.
Speaker:Uh, we mostly go off the Grok River up into Crystal Creek or
Speaker:the head of the Grovo, and it's just such a different range from
Speaker:both of the other ones we go to.
Speaker:It's, it's just a really awesome place to go every year.
Speaker:And then, um, the main place we go this at this point is the Teton
Speaker:Wilderness, kind of the north end of Jackson Hole, just south of Yellowstone.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:When, when you're taking people in, in the back country, What
Speaker:does the experience look like?
Speaker:If people were to look at it from the 10,000 foot view, what
Speaker:would they see with your outfit?
Speaker:Taking people out into the wilderness.
Speaker:you know, I think what people would see if they.
Speaker:If they could see it from the 10,000 foot level is it is just slows down.
Speaker:Life sort of slows down and you start, you know, appreciating
Speaker:some of the things that just you kind of breeze by on a normal day.
Speaker:we like to do at least a five day trip.
Speaker:You know, in the past we've done quite a few shorter ones, at this point, you know,
Speaker:at least five or six days and you're, you know, the first day or two you might kind
Speaker:of be wondering what's next, what's next?
Speaker:And after a while you can just relax and be in the wilderness.
Speaker:Or to notice some of the things that you don't notice on a,
Speaker:on a normal, busy day in town,
Speaker:I'm sure slowing down a little bit makes an experience of what you are
Speaker:offering far more enjoyable than thinking about what's next, what's next?
Speaker:I
Speaker:think so.
Speaker:you know, certainly a lot of the people that have come with us on trips and
Speaker:a lot of people come back and do, many, many trips, the, they always
Speaker:end up doing longer and longer trips.
Speaker:This day and age people visiting the West, they need to see six
Speaker:different national parks in one week.
Speaker:And, uh, I, you know, I think what they really want to do is just get out
Speaker:there into the wilderness where it's quiet and they can't hear their phone
Speaker:ringing and, and just relax a little bit.
Speaker:Well, I think there's a big difference between what you said,
Speaker:seeing six different parks in a week time versus experiencing.
Speaker:One park in one, in one area, like what you're doing for a week period?
Speaker:I certainly
Speaker:think so.
Speaker:you know, to visit Yellowstone to see some of the places up there is
Speaker:so different in the back country than looking out of a window of a tour bus.
Speaker:Oh, for sure.
Speaker:about what we get to do here in the spring and the fall.
Speaker:We just wrapped up the opportunity.
Speaker:Where the Bradley Taggart Lake Road head, you know, from there all the
Speaker:way up to signal that road is closed.
Speaker:And the difference of the experience of riding your bike or walking
Speaker:that road is so different compared to if you're just driving through
Speaker:there.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:What a difference a month makes, you know, go there and.
Speaker:In the 1st of June and try to ride your bike up that road.
Speaker:It's, it's amazing.
Speaker:And you can't blame 'em.
Speaker:Everybody wants to come and see this.
Speaker:It's a beautiful place.
Speaker:I'm to know what age do people begin going on a pack trip with you all and up to and
Speaker:up to what age would somebody go with you?
Speaker:you know, that's a good question.
Speaker:Um, you know, we have an insurance policy and I think, I think that
Speaker:says six years old is the earliest.
Speaker:but it depends, you know, some people, like my daughter has been going on in
Speaker:there since she was one years old, so.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Um, she's, she's six and this will be the six years in a
Speaker:row that she's been going in.
Speaker:and then it depends, you know, uh, if you take care of yourself and
Speaker:get lucky, you know, there's, I've been on, uh, Some really cool trips.
Speaker:Two years ago, for instance, we had a trip with some great friends.
Speaker:did about a hundred mile loop and everybody was over 70 and there were some
Speaker:bumps and bruises and it wasn't always pretty, but, did a pretty awesome trip
Speaker:and made it to over 11,000 feet and, and saw several different rivers and including
Speaker:the very top of the Shoshone River.
Speaker:I, I
Speaker:can't imagine to go see the origination point of some of these rivers.
Speaker:That just is, sounds magnificent.
Speaker:Yeah, we're, we're lucky here.
Speaker:We live, you know, there's lots of places where you can consider the top of the
Speaker:continent, but you know, not far away.
Speaker:You know, the head of the, Columbia River starts, you know, the Snake River
Speaker:drainage flows down into the Columbia and.
Speaker:And you can stand on one mountain and, and, uh, on one side, the, the Snake
Speaker:River is flowing off towards the west and, and then there's the Green River
Speaker:flowing down to the Colorado, and then there's the Mississippi River starting
Speaker:off the other side of the mountain.
Speaker:Man, I gotta get back there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There's, there's a really neat mountain over in the, oh, it would be the northwest
Speaker:side of the wind Rivers, and I think it's called Three Rivers Mountain, where,
Speaker:where all three rivers start off of that.
Speaker:That's, and there's lots of tributaries to all three of those different
Speaker:rivers, but it's one, one of them, huh.
Speaker:How does this make
Speaker:you feel that you've had the opportunity to grow up in these mountains and
Speaker:now you're sharing 'em with, with other people this experience?
Speaker:Oh, I feel amazingly lucky to be able to grow up doing what I've done.
Speaker:I mean, every day.
Speaker:I mean, I'm excited to go to work.
Speaker:And I, you know, for me that's kind of the secret to life.
Speaker:If you wake up and you're just excited to do what you've been, you're doing,
Speaker:it's, it's, uh, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker:Recently we've, uh, expanded to get a ranch over in Kiner, Wyoming, just
Speaker:on this side of Riverton, and that's had all kinds of new tra challenges.
Speaker:to farm a little bit.
Speaker:What are you learning to farm over there?
Speaker:Oh, I just planted about 40 acres of alfalfa and grass.
Speaker:so we have about 80 acres that we can grow enough hay to get through the winter on.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And, and, um, so we're learning to be farmers.
Speaker:How's that going so far?
Speaker:It's been a challenge.
Speaker:It's been an adventure, but I think we, uh, I think we got there and, you
Speaker:know, looking at the forecast, I might even get a little of rain this week.
Speaker:Yeah, it does look like it might rain a little bit for for sure.
Speaker:so is there a difference between your riding horse and your pack horse?
Speaker:And do you use horses or, or mules?
Speaker:You know, my family has really traditionally been on horseback uhhuh.
Speaker:Uh, there's a lot of outfitters around that, like mules and I have several of
Speaker:them, and I do like 'em quite a bit.
Speaker:But for the most part, we're riding horses.
Speaker:And, sometimes there's horses that are way better at riding or
Speaker:way better in the pack string.
Speaker:But, the most useful horse does anything you want to do.
Speaker:So, our best horses will do either one.
Speaker:And when
Speaker:you're back there, how many people are you taking per guest
Speaker:and
Speaker:Well, we.
Speaker:Yeah, Anna, that's another good question.
Speaker:We do several different kinds of trips.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Um, so we can do, we do our horse supported hiking trips.
Speaker:and that we can have a few more people because we don't have to,
Speaker:worry about having too many horses.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Uh, there is a limit on the number of people and horses you can
Speaker:take into the wilderness, so you don't run into too big a groups.
Speaker:We do progressive travel, where we go anywhere in the, in the Tetons or
Speaker:the Gro VAs or the Teton Wilderness.
Speaker:And you know, that's about eight people is a pretty good group for that.
Speaker:then when we make it up into our Pendergraft camp, which we'll
Speaker:set up around August 1st, we're, we're set up there for 12 people.
Speaker:There's a few more, but we don't have to pack all the tents or anything like that.
Speaker:And so, makes it a little easier.
Speaker:What do you mean you don't have to pack the tents in?
Speaker:Uh, we have what's known as an assigned site there, Uhhuh.
Speaker:So the Forest Service, uh, allows us to go in there.
Speaker:It's a special use permit.
Speaker:Through the Forest Service, and they'll allow us to go in and set up
Speaker:that camp and stay longer than the typical allowed stay in the wilderness.
Speaker:Uh, okay.
Speaker:People these days, I believe, are allowed to stay for 12 days in, in
Speaker:the Bridger Teton wilderness in one spot until you're supposed to pick
Speaker:up your camp and go somewhere else.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:What are you setting
Speaker:up to set up camp?
Speaker:I mean, is it big tents for cooking
Speaker:and, and sleeping, or We'll take wall tents in there, Uhhuh, so we'll
Speaker:have six wall tents for people to sleep in, and then a cook tent.
Speaker:you know, that's about it.
Speaker:There's a few other little things here and there, but,
Speaker:it's a pretty comfortable camp.
Speaker:It's a camp that I think people have been using for about a hundred years.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And it's, it's, really scenic cuz we're right up tucked
Speaker:against the Buffalo plateau.
Speaker:So there's almost 2,500 feet of.
Speaker:Rock right in front of us and there's some nice lakes to visit and it's
Speaker:uh, just a, a really scenic spot.
Speaker:The Teton wilderness is great for horses cuz when that volcanic
Speaker:rock degrades, it turns into dirt.
Speaker:So it's nice dirt trails and it's kinda easy on their feet
Speaker:and you can go a lot of places.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Peter, we're gonna take a quick break to get a word from one of our sponsors, and
Speaker:then we will come back and learn more about you and your outfitting group.
Speaker:Sounds great.
Speaker:Peter.
Speaker:Welcome back.
Speaker:We're learning a lot about what it's to survive in Jackson as a rancher
Speaker:and in the outfitting that you do.
Speaker:when.
Speaker:People are out on your, let's say, the Teton wilderness trip and, and
Speaker:it's a multi-day night trip out there.
Speaker:how much of it is for their recreation?
Speaker:But when you're taking people out, should they expect that they'll have
Speaker:to carry some of their own weight
Speaker:on this type of trip?
Speaker:Uh, no.
Speaker:I mean, generally when you start a pack trip, you know, you show up at the
Speaker:trailhead and you get to know your horse.
Speaker:So everybody has a horse.
Speaker:you know, occasionally people like to carry a backpack or something with some
Speaker:extra stuff, but you have some saddlebags and you have, you know, the way people
Speaker:have been doing it for hundreds of years, you just tie a few things onto
Speaker:your, your saddle and in a way you go, for the most part, the pack horses and
Speaker:stuff would carry everything you need.
Speaker:You know, we'll, we bring our coolers back to town and, and send the cook to
Speaker:the store every time before every trip.
Speaker:And, and in that pendergraph camp, that's the nice thing is we do have the, the
Speaker:tents and stuff packed in, so, you know, we can travel a little lighter that way.
Speaker:Because you don't have to break that stuff down.
Speaker:Each time you're taking, you're leaving with people and
Speaker:then bringing another group
Speaker:back in.
Speaker:I don't if, you know, if, if we're going in and out of that camp
Speaker:that we call the Pendergraph camp, uh, we don't have to do that.
Speaker:But you know, if you're doing progressive travel, Sometimes you
Speaker:do, you know, and, and that can mean either going into a camp and setting
Speaker:it up for, you know, four or five days.
Speaker:or it can mean going from a different camp every day.
Speaker:You know, some people wanna try to see as much of the Teton wilderness as you can,
Speaker:so you can, you know, plan out a really big loop and, you know, travel each day.
Speaker:And in those traveling days, you know, it can be longer, but I think
Speaker:the, the right number is about 10 to 15 miles, somewhere in there.
Speaker:and find another place to camp and set it all up and take all those saddles
Speaker:off and get your horses fed and, and make some dinner and, you know, and,
Speaker:uh, hopefully it doesn't rain on you, but sometimes that happens too.
Speaker:What
Speaker:in nature?
Speaker:It does
Speaker:rain.
Speaker:So yes, it, it does tend to rain a couple times.
Speaker:You know, it snows, uh, the Buffalo Plateau.
Speaker:you know, when we're here in Jackson, we think of the big peaks as the
Speaker:Tetons, and they are the highest and, and the most dramatic looking ones.
Speaker:But boy, up to the north, those plateaus are 11,000 feet.
Speaker:Some of the peaks there go up into the 12,000 feet and it's miles
Speaker:and miles across the top of 'em.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:It sounds like
Speaker:this is something everybody should make an effort to
Speaker:experience.
Speaker:It's probably not for everyone.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But, uh, you know, it's a, it's a pretty cool thing to see.
Speaker:and, and I wouldn't knock any of the other mountain ranges too.
Speaker:You know, the groks are, are really special in their own way.
Speaker:There's a lot of wildlife there that's a really old mountain range.
Speaker:And the Tetons are the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker:Just really dramatic.
Speaker:And I think it's a very young mountain range.
Speaker:far as mountain ranges go,
Speaker:you were, you, you mentioned you might get, what, 10 to 15 miles a day?
Speaker:Is, is that a lot of miles on horseback
Speaker:in one day?
Speaker:You know, it just depends on, on the terrain that you're in, you know,
Speaker:if you know where you're going.
Speaker:There are times when I do pack trips where I've never been there.
Speaker:so you're kind of just figuring it out as you go.
Speaker:it, you know, we can go a lot further than that sometimes when we're going into
Speaker:the thoroughfare, which you mentioned.
Speaker:That's maybe 22 miles or maybe even a few more than that to get
Speaker:all the way into hawk's rest.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But the trails are good and you know where you're going, pick the horses
Speaker:that can really travel and but, you know, 10 or 15 miles can be a huge day.
Speaker:And there's a lot that goes into it, you know, when you're out there, pack
Speaker:tripping, we get up, you know, before dawn and, and get the horses caught.
Speaker:And you gotta, you know, one of the biggest tricks about doing pack trips
Speaker:is holding onto your horses because, uh, most people when they go in, you know,
Speaker:find a nice big meadow and let your horses go, they go right back to town.
Speaker:You know, horses feel safest when they're standing there at the ranch.
Speaker:So, uh, you know, it's, it's a, it's a little.
Speaker:Juggling act, trying to hold onto your horses.
Speaker:And that's one of the reasons people really like mules.
Speaker:you get a bunch of mules, they'll pick one mare and they call that the bell mare.
Speaker:And then if you hold onto that bell mare, all those mules will stay there.
Speaker:Um, we typ, we typically use horses, and not too many mules, but.
Speaker:you know, our, and our horses have done it a lot so they can feel comfortable
Speaker:in a lot of different places, but we hobble most of our horses.
Speaker:so you, you know, you tie their front two feet together and then they can
Speaker:move around and, you know, you think it's really gonna slow 'em down,
Speaker:but every once in a while they'll go 20 miles with those hobbles on.
Speaker:No way.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah, they get really good at 'em and we try really hard not to make that
Speaker:happen because, uh, you know, some of them are really good at it, and then
Speaker:they'll, they'll take a horse that isn't quite as good at it and it'll kind
Speaker:of bugger up his ankles a little bit.
Speaker:Have you woken up before when you, you're like, where'd my horses go?
Speaker:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's a, it's a desperate moment.
Speaker:It happens less and less, but certainly when I was younger
Speaker:doing this, you know, I started.
Speaker:Really kind of taken over right after college.
Speaker:I went to school up in Alaska and um, that's sort of when I
Speaker:took over the outfit from my dad.
Speaker:And yeah, I've had many times when I wake up and there's no horses
Speaker:there, uh, a lot of people like to put bells on their horses so they can
Speaker:kind of wake up in the middle of the night and hear the bells, and they
Speaker:know their horses are still around.
Speaker:don't, I, the bells kind of keep me awake so I don't use bells, but,
Speaker:you know, know pretty quick when you wake up and your horses are gone.
Speaker:I, I would imagine so that wouldn't be, and it can be a long walk.
Speaker:we're really lucky with our pendergraph camp, which we do spend, oh, not
Speaker:most of our time, but a lot of our time, the horses don't leave there.
Speaker:It's kind of a, a box canyon, and we're camped at the bottom end of it, and
Speaker:there's enough grass and they, they just feel comfortable enough there
Speaker:that they'll stay for a long time.
Speaker:you know, horses need to eat and they need to drink, but more than
Speaker:anything, they wanna feel safe.
Speaker:Uh huh.
Speaker:it's almost though you want somebody to stay up all night watching the
Speaker:horses, make sure they don't go off on you if you're not in the pengra camp.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Finding that employee is a little tricky.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, nobody probably wants to stay up all night.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm not doing that.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:I, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:We know when we're out there, we usually, we'll always have some horses around.
Speaker:so.
Speaker:Tied up at night, you know, when we get into a camp, we'll
Speaker:start feeding them right away.
Speaker:So we'll have, some of those horses will go out and eat for a couple
Speaker:hours and they'll come back in and, and stand around all night.
Speaker:And then in the morning they go back out and get another, get their breakfast.
Speaker:And, so we've worked out a pretty good system and we don't have too many runways.
Speaker:it like finding
Speaker:people to come and help you operate these outfitting trips
Speaker:nowadays are, are you able
Speaker:to find people.
Speaker:You know, I've been pretty lucky to have some great people that have come along.
Speaker:for some people it's sorta, you know, a bucket list.
Speaker:They wanna come to a summer and see a lot of places, spend
Speaker:a bunch of time on horseback.
Speaker:it's a lot more rare for us to find people that wanna make this, their living,
Speaker:what an amazing bucket list to fill to spend a few months out
Speaker:in, in, in the wilderness area.
Speaker:think it's awesome that you're still able to find people because it seems
Speaker:though, In today's labor market, it seems harder and harder to find people
Speaker:that wanna get their hands dirty
Speaker:a little bit.
Speaker:Yeah, it certainly is.
Speaker:And, and you know, that's what it takes, you know, when we're, you know, everyone
Speaker:calls up and they wanna be a wrangler, you know, they wanna work with horses.
Speaker:Uh, but really that job in, in Includes doing dishes and setting up
Speaker:tents and everything else that goes into making, making a trip work.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And yeah, we've been pretty lucky to find some awesome people that,
Speaker:uh, are ready to, you know, roll up their shirt sleeves and go to work.
Speaker:And how old were you when
Speaker:you started helping your dad with outfitting trips?
Speaker:You know, I, I don't think when I was a really ki tiny kid, we went out very much.
Speaker:But I remember, think my first pack trip was with my.
Speaker:My grandparents when my grandma was still alive, and I think I
Speaker:rode on with her on her saddle.
Speaker:And I, I, I can vaguely remember it, at least I've heard the story
Speaker:enough times that I remember it, that I, I lost my boots and I didn't
Speaker:say anything, so we had to go back down the trail looking for my boots.
Speaker:But, and that was when my dad's camp was up in, bitch Creek over
Speaker:on the north end of the Tetons.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And, um, And then I, I think when I was, you know, 10, 12 in that region, I started
Speaker:helping my dad every summer, spending most of my summer vacation out with him.
Speaker:and then I went to school up in Alaska.
Speaker:And, and after that, I almost stayed up there, but then I decided I needed,
Speaker:needed some more horses in my life.
Speaker:So I'm back here and, uh, and we've just been buying 'em and buying them.
Speaker:Now we have way too many.
Speaker:Too many horses.
Speaker:Well, you know, horses are not easy to keep around.
Speaker:They take a lot of work, but, you know, we have all winter
Speaker:long, we have way too many.
Speaker:And then when we get to the summer, we don't have quite enough.
Speaker:Do you
Speaker:keep your horses on your ranch in the winter or, or do you guys ship your
Speaker:horses off to a, a winter pasture?
Speaker:know, we've always, pretty much kept 'em around here, at least quite a few of them.
Speaker:Uh, we do have a few cows that we keep around the ranch as well.
Speaker:But a couple years ago we got the opportunity to buy a place over
Speaker:near Riverton in Kiner, Wyoming.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And, uh, it's a lot warmer place and a lot less snow over there.
Speaker:so this last couple years, uh, we've been shipping our horses over there
Speaker:and our cows, uh, and it's a little different, you know, I think, Almost
Speaker:for the last 120 years, my family's been hooking up a team of horses to
Speaker:go out and feed the animals every day.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:All winter long.
Speaker:And now we're not doing that.
Speaker:It's a little bit sad in some ways.
Speaker:We still have all this, you know, some wagons and some harnesses
Speaker:and sleighs around and, uh, kinda wondering what to do with them.
Speaker:And
Speaker:when you are on these outfitting trips, is it now with your family
Speaker:all hands on deck and now that
Speaker:you have your.
Speaker:Oh, I wish daughter.
Speaker:It was every trip like that.
Speaker:Uh, and we're getting closer to that.
Speaker:Uh, my daughter's six years old and she's, not a lot of help yet,
Speaker:but, uh, she's getting better and better and, um, and my wife comes on
Speaker:quite a few of the trips, but yeah.
Speaker:I think every year Charlie gets to go on a few more.
Speaker:Um, this will be her 60 year going into Camp Uhhuh.
Speaker:so hopefully she can carry on the tradition.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:that'll be beautiful for that.
Speaker:to, to keep that going.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:She'll, you know, we won't force it on her.
Speaker:Everyone's gotta pick their own path, but, um, she'll certainly have that option.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So what
Speaker:does the summer look like for you?
Speaker:Is it, look, full?
Speaker:You know, it's gonna be an interesting season, you know, with as much snow
Speaker:as there is up there in the hills.
Speaker:we've postponed the start of our season and, you know, our first trips
Speaker:are always into the thoroughfare.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And it's, it's, uh, it's a tough trip cuz it's, uh, 20 something miles in
Speaker:the horses are usually not in shape.
Speaker:you have to make it over Trail Creek pass, which isn't terribly high, but even middle
Speaker:of June, you'll run into snow up there.
Speaker:And it can also be about 25 miles of bogs to go through.
Speaker:And occasionally the mosquitoes are just horrendous up there.
Speaker:but we get to go in there and fish for some of those.
Speaker:Yellowstone Cutthroat that are coming up outta Yellowstone Lake and spawning.
Speaker:And almost every trip we've been there, the people who have
Speaker:caught the biggest, cutthroat they've ever caught in their life.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:So that's kind of cool.
Speaker:Uh, we're gonna start that about middle of June and then, uh, we work with some
Speaker:kids, usually early season, and do a couple kids trips, and then we'll do
Speaker:a few progressive trips and then we'll go set up our pendergraph camp and,
Speaker:and then on towards fall when the oaks start, bugling, we'll go elk hunting.
Speaker:I I'm
Speaker:interested to hear once, when June comes around, what your trips are like
Speaker:running in with all the snow and how slow it has been to melt this year.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:that keeps me up at night occasionally, but, you know, it is
Speaker:what it is and, um, will work out.
Speaker:There's plenty of things you could stay up and worry about.
Speaker:There's always something you can stay up and and worry about.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:Well, Peter, if somebody wants to reach out and connect with you all
Speaker:and set up a trip, how can they
Speaker:do that?
Speaker:Uh, we have a website, um, pendergraph outfitters.com and, don't think we're too
Speaker:hard to find around in Jackson Hole area.
Speaker:you know, uh, it's, it's actually a great.
Speaker:Time to be in this industry because, you know, and you know, 50 years ago
Speaker:a lot of people had their own horses and they did these trips on their own.
Speaker:And it was a, it was a huge way that people recreated around Jackson,
Speaker:either hiking trips or pack trips.
Speaker:but now a lot of people would like our help.
Speaker:And so you know, it's a popular thing.
Speaker:I'm, I'm
Speaker:thrilled that a industry of outfitting has changed so little.
Speaker:Over the years and is being handed down from different generations and is
Speaker:continuing, continuing the course for people to experience such remote areas
Speaker:of our, of our country and, see things.
Speaker:The land, as you said earlier, that's really.
Speaker:Untouched by, by humans.
Speaker:Uh, I think
Speaker:it's, it's phenomenal.
Speaker:It's, it's absolutely a wonderful thing and it's, you know, it's really special.
Speaker:And one of the things that we really try to, convey to everyone that we take
Speaker:out there, that it's, it's extremely important to protect because mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, there, there are people that aren't that interested in having
Speaker:all these wild places like that.
Speaker:So, you know, I think for people to get out there and appreciate it, that's
Speaker:what, in the end will protect it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:Well, Peter, I so appreciate your time and putting up with all the
Speaker:technical difficulties today.
Speaker:it's been wonderful having this opportunity to talk to you and learn
Speaker:about your outfitting business and the fact that you, in the wintertime ski
Speaker:patroller, keeping people alive and Yep,
Speaker:safe air.
Speaker:You trade my horse for some fat skis.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:from outfitting to skier.
Speaker:it's just the, what you gotta do out here, it, it's what people have
Speaker:always done and that's what keeps it
Speaker:interesting.
Speaker:You know, when we get to the end of the fall and I'm tired of settling
Speaker:horses in a snowstorm, like, you know, I just can't wait to get out there
Speaker:and, go make some turns and the powder snow and you what, by springtime
Speaker:I'm ready to get back on my horse.
Speaker:Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker:Well, you had, one quick question.
Speaker:So let's put the skiing and the horses together.
Speaker:Have you ever done the ski drawing?
Speaker:no, I have not.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:We do ski drawing with our kids around the yard, Uhhuh.
Speaker:but, uh, yeah, it's, uh, a lot of people get hurt ski during, sometimes
Speaker:the horses even get hurt, so, no, I don't, I don't do a heck of a
Speaker:lot of ski drawing, but, all right.
Speaker:It looks like fun.
Speaker:I, I think you gotta be a brave person to get out there and get hauled
Speaker:by one of those horses and do the
Speaker:ski drawing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, they're going pretty fast and I have some good buddies that are
Speaker:good at it and you know, and some of 'em actually want some money doing it.
Speaker:Good for them.
Speaker:you know what I like when I'm skiing is gravity.
Speaker:Not only is it the law, it's a real good idea.
Speaker:That sounds fair.
Speaker:Well, Peter, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker:You enjoy your day and keep on carrying on the tradition of your family history.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:All right, Stephan.
Speaker:Thank you very much.
Speaker:Have a good day.
Speaker:You're welcome.
Speaker:All righty, sir.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Okay, good luck.
Speaker:Take care.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:To learn more about Peter Lynn and Pendergraft Outfitters, visit the jackson
Speaker:hole connection.com, episode number 244.
Speaker:Thank you everybody for listening today Get out and share this
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