Episode 194 – Becoming Radically Generous with John Hamon

You are tuned in to the Jackson Hole, Connection, sharing, fascinating stories of people connected to Jackson hole and folks.

I am so grateful for each of you who are tuning in today.

And on a side note, I have created.

A little YouTube channel and also you can follow me on Instagram.

It's called building in the whole in 22, 2, 2 building in the hole and two to follow us on YouTube, Instagram.

And you can see how we are building a new home.

If your kids like to look at videos with trucks and diggers and all that, we're putting all that stuff in there and support for this podcast comes from:

I enjoy reading and learning from others, which really helps guide me to share a quote before we begin this episode, today's quote is a friend maybe waiting behind a stranger space by Maya Angelou and

Today on episode number 194.

I speak with my friend, John Hamon, the founder and CEO of Fordimize.

But more importantly, John is known as a husband, 33 years.

He's a father, a grandfather, and yes, just a phenomenal guy to know.

And who makes a great impact in his communities?

I met John a few years ago, right here in Jackson through a business group called the lion's pride.

And John was living in New York at the time, and now he.

Our full-time residents here in the valley, and John's going to share with us today, some insightful life lessons, what it was like to go hitchhiking across the country when he was younger, which I wish we could do that.

Nowadays.

Folks, John is a business person, a family man who teaches others, what it means to be a person of integrity and.

impact as John says, do you want to be comfortable or do you want to be useful?

And that means a lot.

And he's going to dive into what that means.

I know you'll enjoy listening to John, share his adventures throughout life, as much as I enjoy spending time with him and having conversations, whether we're out on the trail or over a meal, he certainly gets me thinking about who I am, who I want to be.

And how I can make an impact in other people's lives as well.

John.

Thank you for joining me here today at the Jackson Hole Connection.

It is just an awesome joy to get, to have time with you and speak to you any day of the week.

Thanks for making time for me.

You're welcome, John.

all of the episodes everybody's been listening for the past 190 plus episodes knows that we start by you giving us some background.

So where were you born and raised?

And you're a recent, transplant to Jackson.

So you can tell us, why did you decide to come out here to be here other than me being here?

Of course, no.

Okay.

I'll try to be succinct.

I was born in, actually in Hartford, Connecticut, and, I've moved.

A lot in the course of my life.

after that my family lived outside in New York.

Then we moved to new England where I lived until I was about 11 years old.

And we moved to England where I went to, my parents decided we w they wanted us to live like British kids.

So I went to British boarding school for four years and then came back to the United States in the throws of the seventies.

And.

The cultural upheaval.

And it was quite a shock for me to go from wearing shorts and ties and cardigan sweaters to what was happening in the seventies, in the United States.

so I, I, graduated high school in new England.

I went to school in New Hampshire and when I was 23, I actually was in college.

I hitchhiked across the county.

And it hit Santa Barbara in February.

I'd gone to school in New Hampshire and, it was February and kids were wearing flip-flops and shorts and eating burritos.

And the snow was up to my shoulders in new England.

And I thought, you know, I could get used to this life, but anyway, after I got into school, I got an opportunity to come out, work for a company in Southern California.

And I moved out there and my wife and I, raised our family there.

And then.

Jeepers.

I want to say seven or eight years ago, we moved to New York city to plant a church and, um, build, build a business there.

And then, I guess it was now, it's almost, it's a little over two years since we've lived in Jackson full-time, but my background is in my wife and I got married in Yosemite.

We've always loved the national parks and always loved being in the outdoors.

Our relationship is, you know, birding and hiking and backpacking, whatever else.

And.

We came through here years ago with our daughter, when she was a little girl and just, I remember seeing the Tetons, it just took my breath away.

I was, I was truly speechless, which is a rarity for me.

So, then several years ago our mutual friend bill Watkins, and I started, I got involved with him as a.

CEO coach.

And I was coming out for these quarterly meetings and I really got to spend time at Jackson.

I thought, dang, you know, this is, I could be here and I have a business that's.

Based on the cloud and the ability to do what our team is all is virtual all over the United States.

My wife and I looked at each other COVID was going crazy in New York city.

And we said, you know what, now's the time we're going to make a move.

So that's how we ended up in Jackson.

Beautiful story.

Thank you.

Sure.

Now we're going to dive deep into this story.

I have heard of people hitchhiking.

When I first moved here, you could hitchhike not in the park.

That park would give you a ticket.

My brother got a ticket for hitchhiking in the park, but in town, running fly fish and shuttles, you could still hitchhike.

I don't know if people do it much anymore, but not many people do I know of who hitchhiked across the country.

Please share that experience of what it means to hitchhike across the country.

When you, and you said you were about 23 when you did that?

No,

actually I was in college.

I call it makes me, yeah, I was in college my sophomore year and I just ha I sort of had it with college.

I w I was there because that's where you're supposed to be.

And, and I thought, why am I doing this?

The school I went to had a term system, so I could take a term off without, you know, missing w without messing things up and.

I just wanted to get out and see the country.

And like probably a lot of people I'd read Jack Cara wack.

And I just saw this vision of getting on the road and sort of seeing what America is about.

And I've noticed in life that you see things differently on foot than you do.

In a car.

And although your course riding lining your car or truck, when you're hitchhiking, you also spent a lot of time walking and you're kind of still an underground in a place.

And so it was, it was an incredible experience actually, when I think back about it.

And I think about the different kinds of people that I met on the road, and there's a really wide range of them.

You know, there's people who are, I think dreamers like me, people who are.

maybe down on their life, the luck and things are tough and they're trying to find a new place.

And then there's people who are, really, it's a life for them.

They don't want to deal with the confines of like an everyday life and being situated.

And they'd like to be on the road and it's the way they live.

it's a great flattener being on the road.

Right?

Cause there's, it's sort of all different kinds of people.

it's like being in an airport or a Greyhound bus station.

There's every kind of up.

And you get to encounter them all.

So it was this unique and special experience for

me.

Do you remember the path that you took from back east to Southern California?

yeah, roughly, I mean, that's a long time ago, but I mean, I went to first, I went down to down the Eastern seaboard down in Washington, DC.

I can't remember what the reason for that was.

I think it was picking up a buddy of mine and then we hitchhiked, We hitchhiked west out through, the Midwest and then from the Midwest down into Denver.

And I actually stopped for a few weeks down in Boulder, Colorado, and worked and just, kind of rebuilt my cash reserves.

And then.

And then I found a guy who was headed down to UC Santa Barbara, you know, and he, he offered to take us in that direction.

And so that's how he ended up in Santa Barbara on the way, you know, one of the interesting things that happened to me was between.

Santa Barbara and Northern California.

I went up the highway 1 0 1, you know?

And where was it was in Monterey.

I think, a Nepalese guy picked me up.

It was very late in the day and he, he took pity on me, said, well, why don't you come and stay at my house?

And I thought, well, I mean, that's incredibly generous.

I'd been camping at the side of the road.

And, he made me this series of very modest means and he made me this dinner that I was the hottest food.

I like hot food, the hottest food I've ever eaten.

It was so hot.

The foothills of the mountains.

It was so hot.

Like the next day my mouth was still on fire and he made me sleep in his bed.

It was this sense of hospitality.

Like I've never experienced.

He said, you know, no, you can't.

You're my guests, you sleep in my bed.

And I was asleep on the floor and that guy, I don't know his name.

I spent.

16 hours with him, but he literally changed my life because he showed me what hospitality looks like in, in this the most honest, humble, and loving way.

And it was really cool.

thank you for sharing that.

could you imagine where we would be today?

If one, it was safe for somebody to go hitchhike across the country, but then two.

If more people exhibited such, hospitality on a level where, that person wasn't asking for anything back, it was unconditional, just genuine hospitality towards you.

Yeah.

You know, I've experienced that elsewhere, everywhere, except for the United States.

Another trip I had, was I traveled from France to, Morocco on trains because I was a poor kid.

I wasn't a wealthy kid.

And so I went on trades and I admitted.

Taylor who took me into his home with his family and maybe stay there for two or three nights, or maybe, you know, he offered me too, but the way they treated me, it was just this, you know, I'm as a scruffy, whatever 20 year old and just receiving the, into the bosom of their family, feeding me, you know, giving me a place of honor.

And I, I just think it's sad stuff because I think in the rest of the world, hospitality is regarded as like table stakes, it's just how people live.

you have a stranger, you received him or her in and, and we just don't operate that way here.

but you see it, lots of other places you do see a lots of other places.

Sounds like we have a little bit of work to do there.

John could be.

Yes.

You know, you mentioned that you and your wife moved from Southern California.

and is that you moved to New York and is that after you raise your kids were grown and you use the terms to raise a church.

Tell me about how this came about for you and your wife to do that.

and why New York city to raise this particular church as well.

Well, thanks for asking me that I actually, you know, I actually, I haven't been a Christian all my life.

I became a Christian about 20 years ago.

So, you know, I'm 62 years old.

I, you know, I was far along in my adult life, in.

It really radically recentered and reordered my life in terms of what my priorities are.

And, you know, the center of my faith is this idea for example of hospitality, but also being really generous of being radically generous.

and that to whom much is given much as expected.

And I have to say, in the scheme of things, I think both you and I are people too much has been.

And we were at that place where we were very comfortable, where we had a beautiful place in San Diego, had a beautiful network of friends.

We'd love the church we were in.

And I actually went to a conference with my wife where a guy came in and he said, do you know that 60 or 70% of the world's population is going to live in cities by the end of the 21st?

and the needs are astronomical.

And I'd been in Daraa Salaam a few years ago, which was a massive city.

And just seeing the challenges for people there and in, you know, my wife and I looked at each other, we said, do we want to be comforted?

Or do we want to be useful?

Like we can clock it out here or do we want to do something?

And my wife is a nurse and incredible nurses done every kind of medicine from emergency department to labor and delivery and everything in between ran a surgery center and, There arose an opportunity for her to actually go and work in New York city, at a place called covenant house where her job was to provide care services for pregnant, homeless teenagers in Manhattan, in hell's kitchen.

And I got to say in this life, and in this world for you to end up being a pregnant, homeless teenagers, In Manhattan means somebody treated you really poorly.

Things have really gone poorly.

And when this opportunity arose and we're asking ourselves how to be useful, we looked at it.

We said, man, there's just so many people in that city and there's so much need, you know, how can we help?

And that's really was the Genesis or the impetus for us to move to New York city.

And, the guy who is the pastor of that church is actually the son of a very well-known Christian apologist and speaker.

You can read about them in the New York times and so forth a guy by the name of Tim Keller and his son, Mike and I became fast friends.

And that's how we ended up moving to the city.

Christie took on that role at the covenant house, and I was the original planting elder with him on that.

What a mindset of abundance and heart.

not everybody looks at life.

There's not a lot of people that look at life and I'm just looking at my notes here.

Do we want to be comfortable or useful?

And I'm sure that there's probably other ways to be useful as well in your community.

What you and your wife did is certainly, a mark of giving and, wanting to contribute to other people because that's what changes lives.

our mutual faith tradition, right?

our book, the Torah, the Bible teaches that people are of infinite worth because they're made in the image of God.

Right.

And I just, you think about what I mean, and the creation is incredible.

I'm looking out the window at the grand here.

And what is astonishing?

Thing of beauty, but people are worth way more than mountains.

that's what our faith teaches and what I realized I also was a chaplain for a number of years.

And so I took care of people who are dead and near death and dying in trauma and ICU and stuff.

And what I found over and over again was at the end of people's lives.

They never said, gee, I wish I'd spent more time at work.

I wish I'd spent more time fly fishing.

I wish I'd improve my golf.

They invariably said, I wish I'd spent more time investing it, spending with my family and those I love and investing in people.

I mean, just think of the story of Ebenezer Scrooge.

Like in our heart of hearts, we really know that just being comfortable is not a very satisfying life actually.

So this isn't like some big insight that we have.

I just think it's, I think it's spiritual physics.

I think that's just the reality of how human beings are made.

Yeah.

and I wish more people who own their own businesses or just in work in general re stopped and realized that yeah, it's important to make a living.

You want to put something on the table, but is it more, more because that's what the neighbors and everybody else around you is pushing for?

Or is it because, is that something that you true.

Genuinely desire and need, but at the end of the day, what are you going to say?

Oh my gosh, I missed a kid's recital or I'm at an event with my family.

I wasn't there.

I mean, we all need to travel and experience things.

You can't be there for everything, but I have a business meeting next week.

In Casper.

And I was planning on leaving on a Wednesday for the meeting on Thursday.

And my wife said, oh, just so you know, the kids recital spring concert is on Wednesday night.

It's like, I'll move, change my plans.

I didn't know.

And I did cause my kids who were in second grade and kindergarten not can always get to see them do.

You never get that time back.

There's nothing more valuable than that.

That was the right choice.

Well, thank you.

and I look at the pictures behind you.

I have pictures, bought a box of pictures and sometimes I just don't know what to do with them.

But today I have a folder from our move and I pulled it out and it has a picture of me, my brother, my best friend Richie, and my brother's best friend, Michael, who are brothers.

And it was when we were in college and I took a picture of it and send it to them and they're like, oh my gosh, look at us.

I've known Richie since I was 10 years old.

and it's just money will never replace that type of relationship or those memories or the people that your wife helped Christie.

Right?

Yup.

Help that covenant house and the lives that you change go into raise a church in New York city.

again, I talk about, I think of spiritual physics, like what's the nature of reality.

One of the funny things is you go to give and you hope to receive something back.

But what I found works over and over again is when you give to other people, you get back a multiple of whatever it is that you're giving the connections that you make, the wisdom that you gain, the insights, the love that you receive from people.

I mean, it's, you know, it's addictive actually to, to be a giver because it's so rewarding.

I think

it is rewarding.

when you can put a smile on somebody's face.

get somebody to laugh that's way better than the alternatives.

Yep.

Way better.

So you go to New York city, you started church, you and Christy started church.

when you moved out here is the church still thriving?

Oh, yeah, no, it's doing really well.

It's how many member?

Well, think about 600 people attend church on Sunday morning, which was the other church.

Yeah, it is.

It's great.

And we go back there.

We were back there this spring and, gets a disconnect with everybody, but I kind of had done my part.

I was the first stage booster.

If you will.

And then there were younger guys, who, you know, who are really kind of ready to take it to the next level.

So,

and it's, that's the way life should be let the next people, the next generation or whoever come in and.

Yeah, I do have a very curious question because you moved from San Diego and I love, somebody who was a minister in San Diego, and I love his messaging.

John.

Did you happen to

attend his church?

I didn't attend his church, but I went to events there.

So I, you know, John Maxwell is well known and beloved of course, in San Diego for his leadership teachings.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

well thank you for sharing that.

and another person who teaches about abundance and giving, it's John Maxwell.

Yeah, that's right.

He sat on the, he's definitely affected my ways to thinking about stuff as a leader.

We talk about them a lot at work.

Agreed.

We actually have a book club for the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership next week at the store.

Sure do.

Okay.

And so you started a business in New York city.

I love the story how you got it going.

So I look forward to where you to share it

with everybody.

Sure.

Well, I actually had it going before we moved to New York city.

So I started this business about 10 years ago, so I was a fund manager and, um, well, I started out as a technologist.

When I was in high school, I learned to program computers and really changed the course of my life because I was a poor kid and it gave me the income to be able to actually, make a decent living for my family.

My dad had walked down my family, so I've been a technologist.

Then I became a, you got involved in financial services and became a fund manager.

And when I started this company, I put the two things together.

What I was trying to do when I was trying to raise money for my fund was communicate and get to know my investors and build relationships with them.

And I thought, wouldn't it be great if there was a way to make it easier for people to connect with their investors.

Okay.

So I got started with a technology called Salesforce, which I think is coming to be a pretty well-known name that people actually know what it is, but I put two things that I love together, technology and financial services.

And The way that I started that company actually was, I walked into Salesforce.

They were in San Francisco to a young group of sales guys.

And I, I brought them a box of in and out burgers and fries, which is the way to every young, young bucks by heart, I think.

And the phone started ringing the next morning, the next Monday.

And it never stopped the businesses just continue to grow, because what we're doing is meeting a need, you know, banks need to get, to need to get closer to their customers.

They need to meet their needs.

They need to help them solve their financial needs and concerns.

And so, when I moved to New York, though, we moved to New York to plant that church, but it turned out.

Then, of course you can't throw a rock and downtown Manhattan without hitting the window of a private equity firm, a wealth manager, a bank.

And so our business really exploded.

it, I want to say grew about eight times in the course of three years, once we got there.

So it grew very rapidly and that was a huge part of it.

But I wish I could say I was a super strategic guy who had this vision for we'll move to New York and it's going to make all the difference, but.

That isn't really what happened.

It came as a consequence of moving there for the other reasons.

but it was certainly contributed to our success

and then in and out

burger true.

And now for demise is a leader in that sector for Salesforce, what you're offering and you.

Executed on something very generous in the world of business.

And it goes back to you making a difference and your generosity.

You're asking me about what we're doing with the business.

So, you know, we have this kind of north star purpose statement that we want to be wildly successful so that we can be radically generous, actually have a bracelet on my wrist that, you know, everybody in our team has, we want to be wildly successful so that we can be radically generous.

And so.

you know, I define success in terms greater than just sort of sales and in income, it's also how our people are flourishing.

You know, how are they doing in their careers?

How are they doing their families?

How are they giving to their communities?

And when we're thriving, then we have abundance to give.

And that's the idea of radical generosity.

So you gotta put your money where your mouth is.

You know, a lot of people say.

If, when then, you know, if this happens or when that happens, then I can be generous when my ship comes in.

I can give.

Right.

But my conviction is that giving is a muscle that you have to develop.

It doesn't come particularly easy because he had, because giving is painful.

and so I'm teaching everybody along the way to be generous givers.

And so we started this program.

It's called CTO.

That's just an acronym that stands for stake in the outcome.

And of course I love the local connection with our local brand studio.

But what CEO is a.

Is really a mechanism for everybody in our company, from a brand new executive assistant who just joined the company to the president of our team has a real stake in the outcome.

That is a real opportunity To participate in the fruits of growing that business.

you know, I've been very interested for a long time in conscious capitalism.

I don't know if that's, I think you and I have talked a little bit about that in our other times as as a movement, but just the notion that you can do good while you're doing well.

And there's nothing about capitalism that says it has to be all for a handful of.

You know, I'm not a socialist, but I'm not a capitalist in the way that people think about capitalism.

Generally, either.

I think about, Hey, we're all in this team together.

How can this be great for everybody?

How could this be life-changing for everything, not just giving them money, but actually how do we develop the skills and the stewardship to be able to give our time, give our capabilities, you know, give our skills to, to our communities.

So that's kind of what.

John.

I still want to dive into what you're teaching and how you're teaching your team to open up that door to generosity and giving.

We're going to take a quick break to get a word from one of our sponsors, and then we're going to come back to that conversation.

John, welcome back.

We are talking about giving How I love what you just said, radically generous.

You can be wildly successful, radically generous.

You talked about conscious capitalism and you said that giving is a muscle, which you have to exercise.

How do you teach the people?

On your team that are benefiting or are rewarded with the STIO program, how are you teaching them to be givers?

Yeah, that's a great question.

So some of it is how we treat people at work, right?

So for example, I just had my monthly all team meeting today and we announced that Friday afternoons are going to be off for this.

So for 13 weeks of the summer, we're giving people Friday afternoons off.

We're still asking them to do the work they need to do in the course of the week, but to structure their time.

Or for example, we did.

day of rest where we said, we just going to give everybody another day off because this COVID thing is this is about nine, 10 months ago.

It's just been too much.

We just all need to take a break from being in these stupid zoom calls all the time.

So one part is just modeling in terms of how the company treats our people.

We have an unlimited PTO plan.

We have.

401k matching plan.

You know, we work hard to try to build people's career path and so forth, but another is just modeling.

So for example, as things have developed in Ukraine, we went out and identified an organization called hope for Ukraine that is really involved in helping the least of these, the moms and kids, you know, the most vulnerable people in the society.

And, my president, my, my buddy, Danny and I each agreed that we would provide matching fees up to a few thousand dollars.

if our team members would come alongside us, we'd matched out a dollar for dollar.

So you put in a buck, we put in two bucks, that's $3.

So, and I'm very proud to say that the company, you know, which is 55 60 people right now, we raised almost $10,000 just for that cause.

And it was just exemplifying to the modeling.

Bye bye.

Leading from the front, you know, not leading from the back, if that makes sense.

And then, you know, we do supportive activities.

We have what we call BTL, volunteer time off, where we're actively encouraging people to go out and.

Work in their communities.

and so we celebrate that when people do those things, we have a very vibrant slack environment for our company.

and then, you know, bigger initiatives and stuff I'm involved in now is I'm working on setting up a center of excellence in Latin America because.

We want to be able to make real changes in the lives of help other people to flourish.

So a friend of mine who's got a company like our.

He's down in Guatemala right now.

And they're creating jobs for people who come from, you know, sort of native heritage through the most marginalized people in Guatemala and the come out of technical schools and where those their parents were making $2,000 a year of subsistence farmers.

These young men and women are making $2,000 a month.

And if you don't think that doesn't just change their family.

It doesn't, it changes that local community it's astonishing.

So my focus is to model to our people how we do our business with this mindset.

And I think I've answered from small to large, but I mean, there's a lot of ways in which together we're saying this is what matters and in trying to demonstrate it through action and not words

I'm, just blown away by all this.

I had no idea.

Of everything.

And as far as you are, you're taking this and as much that you, the impact that you were making, and when you interview people or you don't interview people when your team now interviews people and tells them about how fortimize works, what are people's responses?

Well, you know, it's interesting.

Just to tell a small story.

So my wife of 33 years Christie, she was like I said, a line nurse trauma, ICU, labor and delivery for years.

And at some point about 15 years ago, her management that the hospital that she worked at in Southern California.

So we would like you to become a leader.

And my wife has a very blue collar headset.

And she was like, I don't want to become management.

Those people that wander around in suits and they don't do anything, they just ride our butts and make our lives for this one.

They said, no, really we want you to become a leader.

And she went through a two year period after praying through and discerning that this was thing for her to do of becoming a leader.

And she was miserable.

She'd come home and cry every night.

dinnertime was like a weep athon between for me to just listen, but she became, and this is where this story is going.

One of the most effective leaders at this hospital system of, you know, 50,000 employees or something scripts in Southern Cal in San Diego, they had two ways of looking at how leaders are doing.

One was press Ganey scores, which are the way the hospitals.

What is the patient experience?

How do patients experience coming in and going through her surgery center?

And then they have what they call great place to work scores, which you're probably familiar with how did the employees experience working here?

And I'm very proud to say, and I don't think she'll ever hear this.

So I think we're okay.

But she was absolutely at the top of the system and both of those schools.

She accomplished exceptional experiences for both the patients and for her people.

And what I learned from her watching her do this was that she created a culture that was so, like a fan of a putting green that was really hard for weeds to come through and practice people would come into the organization and they'd either look at it and say, that is definitely not for me.

Or they go, this is really exciting.

And I want to be a part of it.

And occasionally they had misses of people who came in, who were quite right.

And it was such a strong culture that people opted out.

So for me, being really clear about what the business is about, what we value and externalizing that.

So people know what they're getting into is a huge piece of this.

I call it the cilantro chest.

My, my mom has that genetic thing where cilantro tastes like detergent to her.

And to me.

But what we want to do is say, this is what we do, like cilantro and say, you'll either love it or you'll hate it.

And , in doing that, we have a much higher success of getting people with.

That's for me.

I want to be a part of it.

We don't do it perfectly, but it keeps getting better and better.

And so I think lots of people are attracted, especially thinking younger, the younger crew coming up now, you know, I think Zs and millennials want to be part of more than just maximizing the.

They want to be going somewhere and being on mission.

And so I think what we're, what our team is doing is really attractive to those guys.

That answer your question?

You did and okay, well, well answered and thank you for that story is as well.

And you mentioned great place to work.

Last year, we were received certification from the.

As a great place to work because our team went through the survey process and that's what they voted us for as being a great place to work.

And I can tell you what, four or five years ago, we never would have received it.

So that had a lot to do with the work that you've done with, Great game of business and stuff.

It is with not just great game, but with, through the lions pride.

And it's also not just my work, John, it's the work of the team that I've assembled.

That's where it comes down to.

Now I have the vision.

I say, this is what I would like.

And people say, yes, I want to be a part of that and help grow it.

And we'll water it.

We'll plant the seeds.

We'll water it.

And we'll harvest.

And that's what the team has done.

they're the ones who are putting in really the hard work for it.

Yeah, well, by the way, I'm the talking head, right?

I mean, I, everything that gets done by an incredible team of people.

I'm humbled by the quality of people I get to work with.

this is not my thing.

It's their thing.

Our thing.

I'm with you, John, I am very humbled and let's talk about people who aren't in necessarily a.

Roll like you and I, so we both own our own businesses.

We're running businesses.

We have the, leverage to say, this is what I want.

Let's go do it.

and it's not from, I'll say this for me.

It's not coming from a top down level type of model.

It's more of the servant leadership saying I would like this for you.

And for everybody else.

So I'm here down at the bottom.

You're above me.

How can I help you accomplish this if you really want to do it, but for people who are in that role, like you and I, how do you think they could make a difference in their organization?

Even if the top hasn't adopted this type of philosophy so they can make.

Yeah, right.

Well, people don't quit companies.

They quit bosses.

So whatever's farrier and you have the opportunity to affect those immediately around you.

Right.

And, I just think about the difference between what we call it at Fordham.

I was being an owner mindset factor.

Our president talked about it today, right.

He said, you know, there's a difference between a rental unit and a home that you own.

Right.

So if you own a condominium and you get a stain on the car, You're going to move heaven and earth to try to get that stain out.

If it's a rental, you know, maybe not so much.

So it's a mindset of what do I own and what we call a true you're familiar with to create or mindset, right?

Not a victim mindset, not a scarcity mindset.

Like I don't have this and I don't have that, and I'm not at the top of the organization, but rather than.

This is my sphere.

This is the world in which I'm working.

What can I do here?

And, you know, I've found Stefan over and over again that the actual knowledge of the organization is at the bottom.

Like I talked to bank, president CEO, CTO, CIO, CLS all the time, and they'll tell you how their bank works.

And then you go talk to, a borrower, I mean, to a lender, to a teller, and you find out how the bank really works and there's this huge disconnect.

So one of the things about unlocking genius in an organization is to push decision-making and, you know, it's to empower people in their world to take action.

Now that's not the answer to the question you said, well, if I'm not the boss, what do I do?

But wherever you are.

There are things you can make better.

There are stains, you can get out of the carpet.

There's a, you know, there, there are things that you can see that no one else can see that can , make a difference.

And, to me, work is just much more fulfilling when I'm trying to do something as opposed to fetching about how life is unfair.

I don't like what I've not.

Yes.

Don't look at life with, I'm going to bend over and pick up that piece of paper.

What's it.

Even if it doesn't have to be at work, it can be in our community wherever somebody lives, just grab a bag and go pick up trash in your neighborhood.

One day you'll

make a difference.

You know, you asked me about pastors, his pastor in San Diego, who's who's been dead now for 15 years.

And he was very beloved to people in Southern California.

very humbling.

Well-spoken men and people were just attracted to hear what he had to share.

But one Sunday, apparently when people were exiting church, people couldn't figure out where Chuck was.

When we kept asking where's Chuck.

Well, somebody eventually found him.

After the service and he finished and he dashed out to the bathroom, he discovered that the toilet was plugged.

So he was.

The senior pastor of this large congregation out there with a toilet plunger, plunging the toilet to get it unstuck.

And it was just that mindset.

Like, no job is too small for me.

I'm not too great for anything to do.

And if leaders will do that, they know that their people see that.

I mean, people are children, your kids, my kids, they don't listen to what you say.

They're looking at what you're doing.

And leadership is modeling.

It's not talking.

Modeling not.

Talking.

Well, well said, John, thank you.

I feel that you and I, well, you know, you and I can spend hours talking to each other.

We can,

and we should.

We need to do it again soon.

Yes.

Yes, we will.

Well, what we're going to have lunch soon.

I know that, you and Chrissy had a phenomenal road trip, in the west and you got to go see some of the places that we saw last year.

Let's have you share if people want to connect with you and get some words of inspiration, what is the best way for them to be able to connect with you

to find me?

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't do social media.

I gave up Facebook seven years ago.

My family said, you'll be back.

I said, Nope,

because I realized just, I have to editorialize to say, someone said to me, you know, when you're not paying, you're not the customer.

And all of a sudden I realized it was the product and not the customer.

And I just got off.

However, because of business, I am on LinkedIn.

So my name is John Hammond, H a M O N.

You can find me on LinkedIn there, or I will, I can give you my email too.

Is that appropriate?

Like, okay.

It's you can just email me at John J O H N at fortimize.com.

And I know that's a weird thing.

F O R T I M I Z E fortimize.com and.

Loved to interact with people.

I love to exchange ideas

and I know you do, and thank you and folks, John is very genuine and serious about.

He loves to connect with people and exchange ideas and fortimize, it rolls right off the tongue, John, it's not a weird name.

It's great name.

I love it.

Thank you.

It has meaning to you.

It does.

Yes.

Well, John go enjoy the rest of the day.

take a deep breath and look those Tetons out your window.

Give your wife Christy a hug and, we will see you very soon.

Thank you so much, Stephan.

It's really been fun.

Always a fun time talking to you, John.

Take care.

Okay.

Bye.

To learn more about John Hammond and how you can be radically generous.

Visit that Jackson hole connection.com episode number 194.

Thank you everybody who helped keep this podcast on the air for tuning in share.

These episodes with your friends and family, but especially my wife, Laura, my boys, Louis and William.

And of course Michael Moeri who has edited every single episode of this podcast.

I do appreciate you sharing your time with me today.

Cheers, till next week.