Episode 242 – Songwriting Revelations in Nashville and Jackson Hole with Isaac Hayden

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At the jackson hole connection.com and welcome to episode number 242.

Today's guest is a singer, songwriter, handyman, a guy who knows how

to survive here in Jackson Hole.

Isaac Hayden.

Locals should recognize his name and maybe some no non-locals do as well.

Isaac has played the circuit here in Jackson Hole at the

bars here in the region.

Weddings, corporate events.

Well, Isaac has taken the leap.

In his past to create his own album and has actually published

several single releases too.

And in my humble opinion, allowing yourself to be on stage.

And be vulnerable to an audience.

Takes enormous amount of confidence and bravery.

I give it a to anybody who gets up on stage and performs, cuz trust me, you

don't want to hear me sing on stage.

And I tell you what, Isaac has done it and continues to do so, and he shares

with us today what you don't see from the stage, but more of what is behind

the curtain of a person giving it all to make life in Jackson Hole as a musician.

Hey Isaac.

Thanks for joining me here today at the Jackson Hole Connection.

It's delightful to have some of your time today.

Thanks for having me Stephan

You're very welcome.

And I like to begin, I have begun every single episode of people

sharing where they're born and raised.

So let you start off by sharing,

where'd you come into this world and,

get to run around and get dirty as a kid.

a preacher's like an assistant preacher at a church big megachurch down there

he ended up getting a job up in the San Juan Islands uh Friday Harbor to be more

specific And so we moved up there when I was about a year and a half And I had

most of my formative childhood years there on Friday Harbor all the way till I was

13 And then my parents decided uh the island was a little too small for myself

and my two younger twin brothers and they started looking for another church And

turns out Jackson Hole Wyoming didn't have a Presbyterian church at that time So we

came out visited and everybody liked it and my dad decided to pack us up and bring

us out here And so I went to my eighth grade year and then high school here

in Jackson And yeah that's how I got in the valley And now I'm back after living

all around the country And now I'm back

welcome back Isaac.

Thanks

So your dad helped start the Presbyterian church here in town.

He did Yeah Yeah With a group of uh local Presbyterian supporters

I guess they banded together and hired him on as the first preacher

what's it, what was it like growing up,

around here in this area as a, the son of a preacher?

Well I don't have a lot to contrast it to but it was it was great I mean every

Sunday you know you have a community of people that you see every week and that

are interested in you and Interested in supporting you and encouraging you to grow

And I think the coolest part for me was when I got a little older the the church

had a piano and I had a couple buddies and my dad would let me come down after

hours at night and play the piano and just sing in the in the whole auditorium

And that was really fun for me I think a big part of my musical development was

uh having access to that I'm a terrible piano player but it was fun to just like

bang away and come up with stuff you know

But you got to play.

That's all right.

Yeah totally

And,

I've heard a lot about the San Juan Islands, but I'm not that familiar.

Could you describe the San Juan Islands a little bit for folks?

sure well it's There's a whole bunch of killer whales up in that area The movies

Free Willie were filmed up there and actually when I was a kid me and some

buddies auditioned for one of the free Willie movies be like some hillbilly

background kids We didn't get the part But uh that was big time for us And I

mean it's very small It's it kind of reminds me of like Hobbit land in Lord

of the Rings and uh it's like that but a fishing village as well it's small it's

a lot of tourism a lot of boating and sailing I I spent a lot of time on the

docks catching shrimp off the side of the docks and it's it's it's small and it's

a little bit rural feeling But uh similar to Jackson with so much tourism you get

a lot of diversity that rolls through So it's a wonderful place It's super super

beautiful uh worth a visit if you're in the Seattle area You know it's like an

hour ferry ride an hour drive and an hour ferry ride from Seattle it's really cool

Sounds like the place where you could just leave the house during the day

and show up at night for dinner, and

it was all

That was it Yep

Yeah I've got in a lot of trouble Good Kind of trouble you know

but yeah little kid trouble

Yeah

I, grew up in a small town and we would show up to our house and my mom would hose

us down before she'd let us in the house.

Sometimes we weren't in trouble.

She's just

you're too in the house.

It's a full day right there

was,

Nice work

just be able to hop on your bike and just go for it and not worry

about much of anything else.

Totally

Yeah.

Yeah

And so you said you've lived around the country in other places.

Where else has your heart taken you?

Well um in college I I went to Spokane Washington for a year and I played some

college basketball up there Um that was great And then after that I dropped outta

college and started pursuing music I it took me down to Southern California Um I

lived in San Diego and Costa Mesa LA area for a while and then I re-entered college

back in I went to Florida State University at Tallahassee My best friend was there

and he I was looking for a place to land and he invited me so I lived there for

a minute And then back to Jackson And then uh I moved to Nashville for about

10 years and I lived there from about oh nine to well off and on from oh nine

Jackson So that's been mostly where I've lived with maybe a few short stints in

other spots But yeah I've been to Jackson now about six years since I came back

And I, I take it.

What took you to Nashville?

so it turns out it was music the island I grew up on Friday Harbor the lady

who babysat me ended up marrying a really really great uh music engineer

and when I recorded my first two albums here in Jackson my dad sent 'em out to

some family friends one of which was her family and she passed it on to her

husband And he he ended up being like a multi Grammy winning uh mixing engineer

we started a correspondence and I would send him everything I had wrote all the

time you know just I'd send him a batch of songs and he was kind enough to respond

you know with critiques generally mostly critiques saying like this isn't very good

Or keep trying you know keep riding it's this is getting better or whatever we did

that for maybe two years And then finally he said you know you should you should

come out here man You should move out here And so I did I I dropped everything

and a chance and moved out there I lived in his studio for a couple months before

I found a place to live And um I just I learned a lot from him It was really great

And that that's basically why I went to Nashville or how I got there Anyway so it

turned into a whole bunch of other stuff but that was my foot in the door anyway

Well

we certainly have some time for you to describe what that other stuff was.

Sure Well I'll say you know I guess my first experience that I

remember was I went to the Bluebird Cafe have you heard of that

I think I have from when I was in Nashville and I was on the strip.

Okay

Would I have, seen it on the strip?

not on the strip but it's as well known as as the strip is uh it's it's more like

off in a side part of town but it's a really famous Songwriting cafe basically

and what they do is they put four artists in a round and they go around and one

artist will play a song Then the next artist will play their song And it's it's

really famous for all all the songwriters in Nashville will go play there So the

people you've never you know you've heard the big artist Tim McGraw sing a famous

song but then go to the Bluebird and you hear the guy that wrote it sing it

and I went there and I I sat through four songs one from each artist And I remember

there's a guy named Eric Pasley He played a song and after he played it I was just

like can I swear on here What's the what's the deal with swearing No swearing I I

on the podcast,

I

didn't asking about, you asked him about,

Oh no sorry

Um

I wanted to emphasize my

Yeah.

You can throw a word out every now and then.

okay sounds good Well I I was basically just like holy shit this is the real

deal These guys are amazing I actually left I sat through four songs and then I

left I I went home and immediately started trying to write Better songs because I I

realized that the level of artistry there and songwriting craft was just it was it

was new to me It was a whole different level than I was used to And so that

took me to uh I just started playing in different little they're called songwriter

nights and And you know they have stuff for famous people and then they got stuff

for nobody's like me And uh I I played a bunch of those all around and you sort

of I sort of organically began meeting people in the city and being invited to

different songwriting nights And then eventually uh I sang a few songs in front

of a artist named Shelly Fairchild and she was kind of a Nashville staple and

she invited me to open a couple shows for her And that was sort of how I branched

out even further And I don't know kind of just kept going like that You you

meet people they hear you songs If they like you they might invite you to do

something And I really enjoyed Nashville a lot of people think of it as more of a

competitive community but I found it to be more uh an embracing community it was

a cool experience I love Nashville still

And where did you know that introduction where, you were invited to open

for, that singer?

Where did that take you?

Well not too far but you know just I I then I got some more opportunities like

I guess I gotta open a couple shows for Ke Mo out of that Um ke Mo is a kind of

a famous blues artist Have you heard of him Yeah and I mean it it's a strange

community there because you have all these really influential people tucked away and

you know you wouldn't know that they're there but There's 20 people in the room

and one of them's a famous songwriter an artist And So that was one thing And then

on the side of that I found a really cool artistic community that was based out

of a venue called the Building and did a Monday night open mic night essentially

But there would be a featured artist every Monday and the whole group of us

probably 30 or 40 artists would go there every Monday and we really developed a

strong uh chemistry and community and um through that became a lot of connections

And don't know just friendships Some of those people went on to be successful

Other people quit and our realtors now or whatever I don't know There was a

lot of different little many adventures in my time in Nashville that were that

were served different purposes and yeah

And.

Do you see yourself as songwriter and singer?

I guess that's what I've been is I write my own songs and I perform 'em as

an artist but I've I've had some songs recorded by other people as well which has

been really cool an honor yeah primarily I I'd say I'm a songwriter artist would

be what I've been uh for most of my career

and how do other artists find your songs to perform?

there's so many songs that are out there.

Totally.

I think most of it is, uh, word of mouth through the community or, you

know, maybe they come to a show and they see you perform, or you have a

friend who's their friend and they say, Hey man, you gotta hear this song, or

I think this would be perfect for you.

that's one way.

And then another way is through a publishing company.

if you have a publisher, , I, I had a publisher for a few years, and

what a publisher does is they'll pitch your songs to artists.

they try and find a good match, kinda like a, you know, a, a cupid

of sorts of artists songwriter.

But yeah, for me it was always just place, right time, and a friend

of a friend, that kind of thing.

For the most part.

Yeah.

What's it feel like when another artist picks up your song?

it's really cool It's I think it could be uh like a dual I mean first it's a

it's an honor I think a songwriter to write a song that someone else connects

to enough that they might wanna record it for themself And then it's also maybe

a little unnerving because you you're not sure uh how their version is gonna

suit your own personal expectations for that song But I don't know I think that's

a lesser lesser thing I I think mostly it's just exciting that you want it's

cool to hear somebody else's version of something that you created So I think

for me it's always been an exciting thing regardless of how it turns out

did you cut a or reach some goals of of that nature

yeah I did I I had a few goals I first I had a a mutual friend here in Wyoming

that connected me to a guy out there who had a a a recording or like a live

music venue in his in his loft apartment really strange but he would have would

do concerts in his apartment and um he ended up Putting a stage in and all this

stuff So we ended up doing a live live album in his apartment And uh I invited a

bunch of my friends and and they brought their friends and we recorded a whole

live album with a live audience And was super cool and that was kind of like

my my uh business card for the next few years to give to people And then through

that I met another guy ended up being my publisher and we we recorded a studio

minute But yeah so that was really really great I gotta do a Nashville studio

album and it was super educational for me I learned a lot a lot of stuff and

yeah there there's just so many amazing musicians in Nashville It's it's truly

remarkable how many people have dedicated their life to becoming super proficient

at a instrument or a craft So it's it is cool It's just cool to see all that

like Nashville's of those I mean I've been there and it's It is amazing to

see the the amount of music but from somebody who just enjoys things versus

professional level Like you different experience when you hear the the

different level of writing that you were experiencing say at the the Bluebird

Cafe or being around of those other folks

Yeah

it just don't know is it An environment where everybody lifts each other up

I think so I I'm sure there's different corners of the community where maybe it

doesn't feel that way but my experience was that uh it's like it's seeing

you know when you see somebody who's better at you in something you can

either be mad at 'em or you can be like uh appreciative of their talent and

try and learn from it So yeah I mean everywhere you turn there's somebody

doing something amazing it seems like

Hmm

It can be daunting for sure I think you go through some bouts of

uh depression because of it Maybe thinking what am I doing here You know

everybody's so good But um I think we all have something unique to offer so

I try and come back to that thought

Have you and what it is that you have to offer what it is or why

is in this in the world of music

Yeah I think I'm in that place now actually I think I'm uh yeah I mean

I guess maybe to transition away from Nashville the the the other side of

Nashville is you know all the music everything you go Experiences generally

in a bar So there's a lot of drinking and there's a lot of kind of that side of life

that obviously you don't have to partake in But for me I definitely partook in all

that And when I left I decided to quit drinking I've been five years now without

drinking and I think I just needed to hit a reset button And so yeah I think I'm

in that phase right now trying to still trying to recover in a way and redefine

myself and out what my voice is as a as somebody who's just sober don't know I

don't have an answer in terms of I haven't found the answer yet but I'm trying

Well

you're doing it You know you're not In a

night

Right

I'm sure it's a lot of peer pressure in a in a town like that

Yeah I mean I think most people are just doing their own thing and you

get wrapped up into it Not not so much like Hey you gotta drink with us but I

mean you know rock and roll music it's long been associated with alcohol and

partying and all that stuff but yeah there's there's a lot of people too who

go the other way I think especially now nowadays there's a lot more people trying

to pursue mindfulness and consciousness and present maybe than there have been

in the past That's just my opinion I don't know if that's true or not but

Is

you would say that you practice Uh mindfulness and

Yeah I'm a novice meditation er

I as well

so

Yeah

Yeah so you know it's kind of challenging but rewarding Do

you do you find it rewarding

I

I do my mind and thoughts are always going so fast and bouncing like a pinball that

that one moment during the day where I can call my thoughts or might not clear

'em all Common mall But I'm working on it

totally Yeah It's hard

It is hard

Yeah

but you only get better at it practice it

Totally

mm-hmm

Yeah

so being in Jackson now how has this Community influence where you are now

in your in your life and your career

Well I think it's because it's a challenging community to in I'm not to be

complacent and I've I want to you know I want to become independent again I think

When I was younger I was independent because I didn't have anything you know

I was broke and I didn't need much Um now I have a wife and working on a family and

I think this community I mean it lights a fire under you a little bit Like you gotta

figure things out How are you gonna make money And for me and my goal has always

been to do that with music So I write a lot of songs I I'm trying to get better

at songwriting and I would love to have some songs that were known on the world

stage it's a tall task but a guy can dream you know And I think professionally just

trying to become a better musician this community has has helped me with that I

think a lot of opportunity to play here so

Let's take a quick break to get from one of our sponsors and I wanna

learn more about how the community has helped you fulfill what your are

All right Cool

Isaac welcome back We're talking about how Jackson a challenging community and

you're working on Make it a go at being a musician songwriter is your full-time

providing income source cause you have a family now and working on a family

you married and um you said Jackson can challenge you and provide you with

different opportunities What are some of those Challenges you as a in the musical

world singer songwriter world experienced

Hmm Well say the the music opportunities in Jackson are more for playing at

weddings and Corporate events playing in the bars you're entertaining people

and trying to find the right vibe for a room I've learned a lot about that

in the last six years you know and also transitioning from being a performer of

my own songs trying to perform them for me to being more of like a jukebox where

just trying to set the right right mood for people and not necessarily draw too

much attention to myself that's been a good challenge I I think it's been

helpful for me to I think before I was really nervous a lot when I performed and

now I I'm not so nervous I I'm a little disconnected from the result of the

audience response which has been a good thing I think for me it's I I'm learning

more to perform for myself rather than perform for some kind of result So that's

one way I think performing here around Jackson is has helped me as a musician

What do moved you from performing for the audience You know their

response to performing for yourself

a little bit necessity so

you know when you when you play a song here in these environments and

there for the for the people they're not necessarily there for you you

know they didn't show up and buy a ticket to come see you specifically

play It's more that you were hired to provide some ambiance for their party

Uh

huh

And and when you sing a song and like nobody claps or when I was younger uh it

would it would like kill me to my core Like oh God I suck I'm terrible But what

you realize is no people are actually just sort of in their own world and they're

you know they're not thinking about you just trying to have a good time with their

friends And so I think tr that transition of realizing it's not all about me when

I'm performing It's it's about all of us together and I'm here for them as a more

of a a service than a performance I think that's what helped me going through that

You know just thinking about how you made that transition that

you're there to you know provide the ambiance and no longer frustrated if

nobody applauds for for a song was that a grounding experience for you

Yeah definitely I it's just taught me a lot about myself and you know the ego

and am I am I performing just to get a positive response from people or I

doing it because it means something to me individually and I I think yeah I

had to be honest with myself I I think a lot about it even when I'm performing

like trying to uh stay grounded and not focus too much on my own personal maybe

egoistic to be acknowledged yeah So it's super grounding I would say Humbling

Hmm

Yeah

And

in a good way

when you have a a schedule what is your schedule in life look like for work

When

When you're performing it's it's gotta be different than somebody

who's got eight to five job

Yeah Well actually I have one of those too yeah Yeah I do a lot I mean it's

Jackson so a lot of people have have to be multifaceted to survive yeah when I

got when I moved back here I got a job as a property manager for Teton Science

Schools So I'm basically like a a handyman type person So a typical day for me in the

summer will you know I'll bring sometimes three changes of clothes I show up to

work at seven and then work till three and then I'll change and I'll drive to

whatever event I'm playing at and uh set up play for three hours or four hours

and then know clean up everything Get home around 10 And then sometimes do it

all again or do it three or four times in a week yeah so it can be a lot but

it's it's super full It's full days It's fulfilling it's fun and it's good to be

busy I'm grateful that then something we haven't talked about is I also uh I

coached high school basketball for the last five years as well it Yeah Uh that's

that's my other passion I'm a huge I'm a basketball nut I I love basketball

I'm an addict of basketball I would say So yeah So it's a it's a lot I like it

like

like when I travel Anywhere I go I call every single gym in that city and try and

find a pick up basketball game On the days I'll be there like that I watch a lot of

college basketball I you know I'm right now I'm watching the NBA playoffs and

here in Jackson uh we have a really good crew of basketball players and we play

three days a week I wish it was more but three days is good So yeah just you know

it's a community basketball it's similar to a music community It's just different

What do you get out of students students

I mean it's really challenging to take knowledge you've assimilated

as a player and put it into words to express to somebody else that that

was my main challenge with it It still is I think because I can understand

everything perfectly just by doing it but communicating that to somebody else

who's younger and more inexperienced Is a great challenge but I I loved it I mean

it's it's fun And then to see the kids grow and to be a mentor and to be there

for them not just for basketball stuff but life stuff I mean high school's hard

all remember it's it's you go through a lot of things So cool to be a big brother

in that way and give back a little bit to the community So super rewarding I'd say

That's awesome

were you happy with the outcome of the n ncaa uh championship this year

I was I thought it was I thought it was an amazing tournament of

twists and turns How about you

I kept up with bit I was amazed I went to Alabama I'm in

Oh no

far that team made it I

were good

I did not follow them through the season And then I think it was close

to the playoffs people Somebody said to me yeah ABA your your Bama

team's doing well They're number one I was like you gotta be kidding me

Yeah would've thought

Who would've thought

But myself and many others picked one to win the the national championship you know

I

think a lot of people a few people did pick them

I

would say not many picked who won the national championship

Yeah not as many No

diehard fans

Yeah they were a good sleeper team Yukon but uh yeah definitely unexpected I'd say

So what's what's on the the dream of you want to accomplish Isaac

I've released a few singles so yeah I have a bunch of songs that I'm trying to

wrap up and find a cohesive unit to put out there in the world I'd also like to

be more prolific in what I release I tend to hold things pretty tight and not put

'em out there so that's a goal of mine to let go a little bit And then yeah I got

some other things up the sleeve that if we ever talk again maybe I'd tell you about

but I'm still in the works and yeah trying to build a family with my wife and just

become a better person that's it right now

And you were talking to somebody Who was bouncing around from colleges playing on

the music circuit and saying that they gonna go and be a musician and record

an album or reflecting back and seeing yourself you know 20 years ago what

would what would you tell that person now

I would probably say to trust yourself to trust your gut and go with your spirit I

was surrounded by a lot of really amazing musicians and music minds And there was

I mean it's a fine line between taking the advice and then knowing what you want

that I guess that was just something I had to go through and maybe everybody's

gotta go through that But I wish sometimes I would've voiced my opinion a little

bit stronger and and pushed for the things that I wanted a little bit more I

wouldn't know that unless I'd gone through that experience So maybe everybody does

I that that'd be my advice Just trust yourself Believe in your your inner quiet

voice It's got something good to say

Isaac

Cool Yeah

how can people find your album in some of those singles put out

Uh you can find 'em on Spotify

Uhhuh

My website's just isaac hayden music.com and there's a bunch of different

links and videos there as well but yeah and I I'm on Instagram and those

things but it's all on my website so

That's awesome

reach reach out say hi I'd love to hear from you

Okay

Isaac I appreciate you taking time to sit down and talk with me today and

share some background of who you are and.

let us all get to know you a little bit more, and this has been

Thanks for having me Stephen It's really cool I'll keep listening sir.

Bye.

To learn more about the music of Isaac Hayden, visit the jackson hole

connection.com, episode number 242.

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