Episode 214 – Leading the Broncs with Hayden Hatfield

You are tuned into the Jackson hole, connection, sharing, fascinating stories of people connected to Jackson Hole.

I am truly grateful for each of you for tuning in today and support for this podcast comes from:

You know, reading and learning helps me, fill my mind with ideas and perspectives from other people and.

I enjoy sharing those quotes with you from reading them.

I haven't read anything from this author before, but I did search out this quote and it's leadership is about recognizing that there's greatness in everyone and your job is to create an environment where the greatness can emerge.

And that's from Bill Campbell.

And Bill is actually referenced in this podcast by the gentleman, I'm about to, I.

And you are listening to episode number 214, and my guest today is Hayden Hatfield.

Hayden is a soon to be father.

He's a husband.

Lifetime learner and the head basketball coach for Jackson Hole High School.

Hayden had the great privilege of growing up in the South and also attending with frequency, one of our nation's premier sporting events, which gave Hayden the opportunity to see top professional athletes performing at their best.

so he's gonna share that with you.

And with the right mentor guiding Hayden, he had a few of 'em, He was able to find his path and learn what it means to be a coach and.

After learning from his mentors and being a lifelong learner, Hayden's carrying that forward in applying those skills that he learned from his mentors as the head basketball coach at Jackson Hole High School and Hayden is coaching students on important lessons to be successful on and off the court, and, in those students future.

I think you're gonna enjoy listening to Hayden today

Hayden, thank you for joining me here today at the Jackson Hole Connection.

it's, awesome and I appreciate you taking the time to sit down and talk with me.

Yeah.

No thanks Ste.

Uh, really, really excited to be on here and kinda share a , little bit about what we're doing.

You're, you got it.

Well, because I like to connect people.

I, I always like to start with you sharing your background of where were you born and where'd you grow up.

And I also am gonna ask about the flags, cuz I get to see what's behind you right now.

Oh.

So, I'm gonna have you share about those flags, but tell us where you grew up and where you were born, and then how'd you land out here in Jackson?

Yeah, it's kind of a long, long story.

originally I'm from Decatur, Alabama.

another one of those southern trans transplants out here.

grew up there, went to college at a small school in Charlotte, North Carolina, Queens, University of c.

just by chance,, kinda, you know, knew what I wanted to be when I grew up.

wanted to get involved in sports.

they had a really good sport management college program.

I was just up and rising, kind of starting out.

and so I decided that'd be great for me.

you know, I got really lucky cuz I decided basketball would be my kind of, and when I got there, I didn't know a ton about the basketball program.

but I got on as kind of like a student manager, probably my sophomore year.

And, got really lucky that the head coach, his name's Bart Lundy, he'd taken them to like their division two school.

He'd taken them to four or five elite eights in the, uh, ins NCAA division two.

so I got really.

that I got on, you know, learning from a guy that had a lot of success.

he was a head coach at High Point before that.

so a really good basketball background, taught me a ton.

and, you know, some of the stuff that he, he does and taught me, we still do here at Jackson, Jacksonville High School now.

So, stayed with me at that all that time.

he's now the head coach at Division one, University of Wisconsin.

M.

So he's, he's done really well for himself and I got very fortunate that I got on with him early on in my career.

kind of like, you know, it's all about who you know.

And, I got really lucky that he was that

guy.

Sounds like a great mentor.

Absolutely.

He really good guy.

he's had a lot of successful coaches come from his tree too.

Um, I think there's three, two or three division one coaches now from his coaching tree.

And so some of the guys he connected me with kind of propelled my career from there.

you know, when I was there at Queens, I started working basketball camps for a guy named Buzz Williams.

he was at Virginia Tech at the time.

kind of became my, you know, number one mentor.

taught me a ton of stuff.

the, the main takeaway and it kind of propel.

From just being a, you know, young kid who liked basketball.

I wanted to coach into being kind of a leader.

would be, you know, he taught me that if you're not reading, books, you're not learning and you're falling behind.

and so he's the guy that he reads about 60 books a year.

math wise, I think that's about, little more than four a month, I think.

Mm-hmm.

so.

, You know, I'm nowhere close to that, but I try to, uh, you know, learn from him and do that too.

Read a lot, get different experiences from other people who've done the same stuff or that I'm trying to do, you know?

so from, from, you know, that coaching tree I got on, college staffs at Troy University, which is South Alabama for the, for those of you that don't know.

and then I got on, finally, my last college stint was at.

Mercer University, which is in Macon, Georgia.

very fortunate too, the guy I got on with there, got on his staff as Bob Hoffman and he was a really, really good Xs and os offensive mind in the game of basketball and he kind of propelled me in that way as well.

and from there, our second season our staff got fired.

Uh, the head coach got fired, so our whole.

It split up.

and we all went our own different routes.

from there and went the high school route, I got a really good high school assistant coaching job in Atlanta, Georgia, for the high school's, Meadow Creek High School.

And it was a, uh, it's largest high school in the state of Georgia at 4,500 students.

Oh yeah.

Huge.

and so I learned a lot there and that's, you know, that was my last stop for Jackson.

and kind of just to, you know, sum it up, the Why Jackson Hole, , I've, I vacationed here.

right as the pandemic was kind of, you know, I, not ending, but all the, lock, lock downs were kind of getting, you know, were ending that.

So, right when those ended, I kind of went on vacation here and I fell in love with it.

it's one of those jobs.

I said if that, if that high school job ever comes open, I'm.

Hmm.

lo and behold, that next March, or I think April, that job came open, I interviewed and, got really lucky and somehow got the job.

So, you know, 26 year old guy, got the head coaching job for the first time.

I guess I was 25 at the time.

and so, uh, you know, that's how I kind of got to Jackson Hole.

Loved it.

Fell in love with the culture.

Um, with the town, obviously the outdoors activities, it's a plus.

and that's how we got here.

You, you said you got

the job.

Would you say you earned it?

I would say I earned it, yes.

Absolutely.

I

don't think that's being boastful, Hayden.

I think that's just the reality.

You put the time in, you were reading the books, you were under the right people, you've earned it.

Absolutely.

And that's part of it.

You know, it's, it's, you know, what, how much time did you put into it?

What we try to teach now to our team is it's really what, what you put into is what you're gonna get out of it.

Mm-hmm.

, Stephan Abrams: and going back to your history, we got to talk a little bit before the show and you have some flags that are behind you.

share with everybody about those flags and your family's connection.

The history of that.

I,

I think it's awesome to.

Yeah.

for those of you that don't know, the, the masters is like, I mean, it's, it's hard to get tickets to the Masters.

and so growing up I was very fortunate.

my great grandparents, specifically great-grandmother now has had family tickets since way long time ago.

I wanna say the sixties would be a rough estimate, when they finally got those tickets.

and.

the Masters is, you know, it's a lifelong ticket back then.

so as long as she's living, we get Master's tickets.

and so now she's 101 years old.

and so we're still receiving Master's tickets, every year as a family, just because she's been on the list since the early sixties would be my guess.

so we're very fortunate that she's still kicking it.

And, we're, we're still getting some tickets too.

That's awesome.

And so growing up, you got to go to the Masters

pretty frequently?

Yeah.

I get asked this question quite a bit.

I can't put an exact number on it, but I'd say eight to 10 would be the number of times I've been.

That's awesome.

I've seen, I've seen Tiger Win it, seen Phil Nicholson win it.

the most recent, I think it was Matt Sue Yama won it.

Uh, and I was there for that one, so, Cool.

That was the most recent.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

It's hard to get out there now flight wise since we've been living out here.

But try to do it every Then

, Stephan Abrams: now.

When I was in, in school, the coaches would also teach classes.

Do you teach classes as well?

I do.

So at the high school, I'm a special education teacher.

I teach sophomore special education program classes, which it kind of consists of, going into, you know, help some students reach the content in like an English class per se.

but also we have our individual like, uh, we call individual instruction where we teach them skills to be successful in high school.

What are some of the skills that you might be

teaching some of these kids?

Yeah, no, executive functioning is a big one.

executive functioning, which is kind of, turning in homework assignments.

that's, that's a skill.

and a lot of kids these days do not have that skill.

the pandemic has really challenged teachers and, getting kids to be successful through, you know, just being a great student skill wise.

so that's something we teach is turning in homework.

teaching them how to study, is another thing.

that's a big one these days.

there's so many different ways you can study.

and the, you know, the, the number one method these, these days is, looking at your computer and just kind of looking at it.

not a lot, not a lot of kids these days have no cards out.

Kinda like we grew up doing note cards and, uh mm-hmm.

just writing down, memorizing things so, Teaching them just study skills is the number one thing, we can do.

Uh, in my position,

I'm, I'm old school about writing it down and the note cards and reading it several times.

Absolutely.

No, I'm, I'm the same way.

I, I'm actually overboard on it.

I, I have tons of note cards.

Here's a stack on my desk right here, right now.

Just did random things, random thoughts and quotes and stuff I've found.

and so I have a system, a note card system.

I do too.

Mm-hmm.

, it's kind of, it's over the top for sure.

And I file, like I have a category of basketball practice and it's like a thick, you know, stack of note cards behind that.

And then, you know, you got a leadership category.

So I got, I'm really worried about my note cards and how we, learn, learn things, memorize things.

Old school

You mentioned some quotes or something about leadership.

Do you wanna share something that you might have in

one of those note cards?

Oh, man.

Let's see right here.

Yeah, so I mean, I'll just read a couple right here.

I mean, so this is the stack for leadership right here.

That's, that's a big one.

150 note cards.

Just over the years we compiled from reading books and such.

a great leader cares more about the people than the results.

who is that?

that was Bill Campbell.

Bill Campbell, if I remember correctly.

uh, he has a book out, it's about him.

It's called Trillion Dollar Coach, he was a leadership coach.

He, he was at first a football coach, I think at one of the Ivy League schools.

Princeton maybe.

and he wasn't very successful as a football coach.

but then he got into coaching like, CEOs and being leaders of, big time corporations.

And eventually he was, you know, leading people at Google.

he was their key culture guy, at all these big time corpor.

it's a really good book if you haven't read it.

Yeah, I just wrote it down to add it to my

list.

Yeah.

I do that, that's a better way for me to, say I need to go find something to tell a kid about habits.

I'll go scroll through my note cards.

All right.

Habits, find a good quote.

You know, you know, you don't learn something new.

You have to forget something old.

That's bad.

Boom, you go.

it's a good system for me as a coach to kind of, mm-hmm.

have things squared away and ready.

. That's a,

that's excellent.

I love it.

I have a book of quotes, but I don't have my quotes organized as well as you do on note cards by

category.

Well, it's all about for me time.

I don't have much time to have something to a kid that's struggling, you know?

Sure.

It needs, so it's, it's a very organized way for me to get something really quick.

Yeah.

Have you ever read any of John Wooden's books?

Absolutely.

I got, so I got my collection right above me on my bookcase.

I probably have about three, three wooden books up there.

they're great, obviously.

his Pyramid of Success, we kind of have a, our own version of Pyramid of Success here at Jacksonville High School, Boys Basketball . So we try to live it out.

Uh, we're still tweaking it here and there, but, we're not, we're not quite to where Wooden was.

tell us how, how you're applying that peer.

What is the John Wooden pyramid to of success and how, what does it look like at the Jackson Hole High School?

you know, it's a little different.

We have tweaks here and there of it.

you know, the ultimate goal is, competitive greatness.

that's our, that's the top of our pyramid.

how do we get to competitive greatness?

you know, for us, competitive greatness isn't just winning a lot of games.

For us, competitive greatness would be, you know, are we getting better every single day?

Are we judging it?

our status as a team against the team instead of the opponent.

so in other words, are we, you know, are we getting better individually each day at ourselves?

daily progress.

Uh, another word for that we use quite a bit or, or starting to use quite a bit as Kaizen.

Mm-hmm.

, Japanese or Chinese.

Can't remember which one.

Japanese.

Yeah.

And, just daily progress.

Are we getting better every day?

are we doing the things we need to every day to become successful people?

I love it.

Yeah.

So, and that's, that's the thing too.

I geek out on the, the culture stuff.

big, big time, you know, learner of cultures and how can we, how can we implement some of that stuff into what we do?

Mm.

I'm reading a book right now.

It's from the early eighties.

it's called The Reckoning by I think David Habersham, I mean, it's you.

I had to find it used.

I mean, it's a, Yeah, one of those, It's a thousand page book, it, it's essentially the competitiveness of the US auto industry, and it focuses a lot on.

And the Japanese auto industry and what the Japanese auto industry had to do to overcome, to build itself up after world Wari.

Mm-hmm.

. And for a while, MacArthur was over there.

He was leading, he was running the country.

Right.

And if they wanted something, the, you know, these business people, they had to go to him for approval.

, That's awesome.

Until they could be sustainable.

I mean, at one point they weren't allowed to build planes.

Wow.

Yeah.

and it, and I'm getting into how they came over here to the US to learn the processes to make their process better, but then they took their culture and added to it to make it continually better.

Yeah.

Saying.

We can make it better.

And it's that kaza and yeah, you get into the fold, into the, the books, The Toyota way about that.

Kaizen, thinking.

Yeah, no, I love that.

yeah, read a book too, I can't remember which one it is.

It was one of the, I read a few this summer and it was in there and I was like, Wow, that's something we've gotta utilize and get into our culture.

And, I've always, you know, preached about the process, but.

Now we have a different word for it.

that's something that, you know, we can go in a different direction with.

And

considering you're teaching high school students, you have an opportunity on the court to mold these students and teach some of these things.

What about the kids who might not be involved in athletics?

Because it's not.

Ability, their natural ability, what resources are out there for them to have some of the same thinking process, to apply it to other things that they're doing in life, or you know, even if it's on the robotics club or the Speech and Debate club, or even if they're not a part of any of that stuff.

How do you all as teacher, access those kids and teach them

that information.

Right.

Well, I, I think the number one thing, the high school does a really good job of including everybody in something.

Oh, we have, we have so many clubs, so many, activities that are just outside of sports.

you know, there's a United Nations Club.

There's, obviously you said robotics, theater, dance.

there's so many activities that, kids can get involved in and there's so many good mentors in this school too, that just outside of sports that, you know, have lived really interesting lives.

and that really just have a lot of good input.

like, you know, Jackson Hole in general is just a really good melting pot of guy.

People have had experie.

, and you can definitely tell that here at the high school, there's so many people that just want to help out learn, and just start lifelong learners that can teach these kids how to be that, you know, kind of mentor to them.

And

it, it's great that the high school has that.

At what stage?

The grades below high school be exposed to some of those organizations?

Yeah, no, I mean, so that's, I, I see it firsthand at the high school, but I hear the middle school too has a ton, ton of resources.

you know, for me, we have, you know, middle school athletics too.

So just using what I see as an example, we have middle school athletics.

And we have middle school basketball, but there's also, like, you know, in fifth and sixth grade, they have the opportunity to go and, have, I think it's before school.

They have, basketball, just open gym where there's teachers that go, let them play, get exposed to things like that.

I'm sure it's the other way in all programs, but I see a basketball specifically mm-hmm.

that there's just tons of opportunities for kids.

and I, I think that's where it really starts at that middle school age is when they're trying to figure out what, what do we like?

Mm-hmm.

, what, what are we gonna get into?

And so that's really good age to have a lot of opportunities just outside of the, the Normalities I would say.

Like middle school basketball is a normal thing across the country, but having them in fifth and sixth grade that they can go play in the morning and just kinda get exposed to it and have fun, that's huge.

Yeah,

for sure.

I, I remember as a, you know, I grew up in a small town in Mississippi.

You know, I was odd man.

Now I was a Jewish kid, but the, the Southern Baptist Church, the first Baptist church was the dominant force in that town, and they had a gym.

And you know what?

After school, that's where you would go.

Not because you were told to go there, but because that's where everybody was hanging out and playing basketball or they had ping pong tables and pool tables.

It was phenomenal.

to see what was there.

the, the opportunities just to be able to

play.

Yeah, exactly.

And then the other thing here is, you know, out, most of other places in the country don't have the ski programs like we do.

Mm.

I mean, we have so many kids in the ski programs and that's, that's really cool.

that's something that you don't get experience everywhere else.

That's true.

Where is the basketball program now compared to where it was when you first started?

Hayden?

. Well, culturally, it's, it's a long process to build, right?

Mm-hmm.

we've, we've come so far.

we'll just start out with that.

We've come so far to, you know, getting competitive.

you know, for those of you that don't really know, Jacksonville High school's, you know, in some sports were for.

which is the highest classification in Wyoming for sports.

and some were three a, basketball.

We are four A.

so we compete against, you know, the Cheyennes, the Laramies, all the Sheridans, Gillette, the big, the big big schools in the state.

And so we've struggled.

so it's been a long time since we've had a winning record.

and last year, our first year as a staff, we came in and we were one win short of ha having a winning record.

so, you know, before we got here as a staff, we were one in 40 in two years, and last year I think we went 10 and 11.

Wow.

So it's, it's, it's turning around.

and, you know, going into this season, You know, we're, we're expected to be really good.

just a couple of days ago, we had an article come out, and it's a na, National Media type deal.

and our, one of our players, our really good player, was named the best player in the state of Wyoming as a junior.

So, Congrats.

Yeah, so he's, just that kind of stuff.

He's, you know, not just him, but everybody's worked really hard to get where we're.

and

with everybody working so hard to get where, where you're going.

what's the difference of competitiveness that's coming out of some of these bigger schools compared to Jackson competing

at that foray?

Yeah.

So, student-wise we're, you know, we're about, I think I we're near a thousand at the high school.

some of these schools are playing are about 15.

so they got a lot more, in general the ideas.

They have a lot more kids to choose from.

Mm-hmm.

but you know, us, I think the next step for us is just building year on, year in and year out from the middle school level.

getting kids involved early on and, getting them kinda acclimated to what basketball is.

not just like specifically making them basketball only kids, but, you know, introducing the game at a younger.

that's what I can see.

you know, a really good, really, really good class right now is our junior class.

and what they had was they had parents that took them everywhere, even from like the middle school ages just to play against really good competition.

Hmm.

and that's something we don't have here.

I slated in, you know, Western Wyoming is a lot of competition.

We could just go to and play, you know, we have to go to Salt Lake, Denver.

Idaho Falls would be the closest place to where we have to go to play, you know, basketball games.

so like, you know, in Atlanta you could go down the street right here, you have to go two and a half hours to, you know, play a basketball game.

So that's the biggest difference for us is just getting people bought in to what we're doing and, giving kids opportunities to get better at it would be my set.

That's awesome.

Hey Hayden, we gotta take a quick break to get a word from one of our sponsors, and then we're gonna be right back to talk to you, about the basketball program and what you're doing over there with the students.

Thanks, Stephan.

Hayden, welcome back to the Jackson Hole connection.

you just shared with us the successful progression that you've had with the basketball program.

And I'm, I'm curious to know what's the commitment for parents, and then what's the commitment and time spent with you and and how many coaches do you have?

Yeah, A high school

level first, uh, coaches at the high school level, I have three assistants.

you know, we got a varsity assistant, uh, and we have a JV coach and a freshman.

and then we have a, you know, a lot of guys that just help out volunteering, volunteering their time cause they wanna be involved.

Uhhuh, um, we have two or three other guys that are gonna volunteer and help us this year,, just on their own time, just cuz they wanna, you know, help out, teach the kids and, be more involved in the game.

So, we have plenty of help.

That's, that's, that's something that's changed since we've been here too.

I've seen a lot more people willing to help, as we've been growing a culture.

getting a little better too.

So, commitment wise kids, you know, right now our players, I told 'em the other day, they have opportunities about 360 days a year, if they want to get better at basketball.

that's just how, you know, we see it, as coaches that if we open the gym on these days, let them come in and just shoot, play against each other.

they're getting.

Every day.

So, uh, we try to give 'em as much opportunities as we can.

and so, obviously no one comes in 360 days a year, but if you come in half of those days, wow, you're gonna get a lot better really quick.

and that's what we've seen in a lot of players.

so that's the player commitment, you know, it's just, it's up to you.

Mm-hmm.

, we can't mandate anything here in Wyoming playing, you know, days come in practice over the summer, nothing.

It's all.

do some

states do that?

Absolutely.

Uh, really, you know, Georgia, where I was, you know, we had tryouts in April, for the next fall.

And you were required to come in all summer.

All summer.

You had to play.

it was team.

If you didn't, you know, we could cut you.

state of Wyoming, you know, we, we don't have tryout still after Thanksgiving.

and so everything has to be optional.

over the summer, over the spring.

So, yeah, it's a lot different.

It's something I've had to adjust to, as a coach just trying to figure out, alright, what's the best system we have here?

What can we do?

What can we, you know, best utilize our time with these players?

Mm-hmm.

then parent-wise, you know, that's, it's a huge commitment playing any sport here.

just because of the travel.

I know every sport, soccer has to go to Casper a lot to play soccer, have to go to salt.

for us, in the spring and summer we, we try to travel as much as we can.

We've done Salt Lake, we've done Idaho Falls a ton.

and the next summer we're trying to expand even more just cuz we're getting really good.

We gotta see what we can compete with out there.

Um, so we hope to go to Denver, have a lot of team camps in Denver this next summer.

And, just trying to see what kind of competitive basketball team we.

but yeah, parent-wise it's a huge commitment, just travel-wise, you know, that's not cheap to travel places either.

so it's, it's a huge, huge, task on the parents as well.

Yeah, I mean, what did a major financial, not just time commitment from having to take off work, but gosh, the financial commitment from, you've taken off work and then you gotta pay for the travel and the meals.

Right.

And the hotel and my

gosh.

It adds up quick.

And, I will say the one thing that has really helped us as a program, we have Jackson Youth Basketball here, and that's kind of what we do our travel season through in, spring and summer.

and so they have, you know, it's a non-profit organization so they can help out anybody who can't afford to, you know, buy the jerseys or buy, you know, get the entrance.

tournaments we go to, they help out, scholarship wise, letting kids have access to the sport.

And we have a lot of parents through that org organization too, that, will take the kids.

you know, we have some parents that'll take four or five kids on the road with 'em for the weekend.

Mm-hmm.

, which helps out a ton.

It's very generous of of them.

It, it just shows that it takes.

a dedicated community to survive out here.

I mean, absolutely.

It's such a remote area.

It's just like what you said, Hey, in, in Atlanta you just drive down the street.

It's 10, 15 minutes, maybe a few miles.

But here you're talking about a

full day travel.

Yeah.

And that's, one of the first statements I had when we got here, was that it's not gonna take a coach, it's not gonna take a team.

It's gonna take a whole community if we really want to build something.

in the state of Wyoming, just cuz, cuz of the commitment levels.

Mm-hmm.

so it's, it really does take a whole community buying into what we're doing to become the best we can.

Mm-hmm.

. And

as the performance on the, on the court has been improving, what do you see that translating into the students grades and participation in class and the community?

Absolutely.

No, I, I think.

Athletics is a huge part of student success in the classroom as well.

Uh, we're fortunate enough to have a few kids that, you know, we'll probably be able to go play at the next level.

and that's not because just of their basketball building, but because there's such good students as well.

Mm-hmm.

, I mean, we've got kids that could play at the next row, three, five to four oh, GPAs.

and that's huge, especially in a community like this where.

You got kids that are good enough to play at Division three schools, which those are all academic scholarships, right?

but it is definitely a benefit to be able to play basketball too, and that gets you in a little easier, if you play.

So, academically, we're a very high, very high functioning high school.

we got a lot of good kids.

There's not a kid of my roster that I worry about.

They just are so bought into the aspect of, you know, this is how we get to college.

this is, you know, even if they don't wanna go to college, this is, this is how I get the best job opportunities outside of high school.

that's one thing.

As a coach, I've really, really come to appreciate a place like, this is something I don't have to worry about as a coach.

Mm-hmm.

, they're so motivated and just love, they love the school.

I think it's, it's really easy on me to.

, how

do you translate their success and involvement in the team to having a strong, supportive job when they get out of high school?

Yeah.

No, I think that's, that's a really good question.

you know, for every kid, the motivation's different.

Mm-hmm.

You know, some really do wanna go play college basketball.

and if that's the dream, that's the one thing as a coach, I know if that's, if they tell me us what they wanna do, I've got 'em right there.

Mm-hmm.

, I've got 'em right there as a player.

I can hold that against them.

You know, You, you, you're not coming to workouts over the summer.

Well, how, how do you think you're gonna play college?

Basketball, man.

Mm-hmm.

just big motivation.

Like, as soon as they say that, I know I've got them and, you know, usually they're successful because, Once you figure out what their reason is and what they wanna do with it, that's how you hold them accountable and get them in the right direction, academically too.

we have strong, strong eligibility rules here.

you know, if the kid's failing, we won't let them play basketball.

they gotta get that grade up for their eligible to play.

that, you know, I've never had to use that since I've been here.

But, I hope I, you know, knock on wood, I hope I don't.

That's another accountability factor is just, you wanna play basketball, get it done in the classroom first.

Mm-hmm.

, Stephan Abrams: I went to Alabama and there, there was a story.

Yeah.

And there was a story about, my aunt or my dad needing help with something and with a class, and they needed help and the comment.

Whatever the bear wants.

The bear gets.

Yeah.

Yeah.

. So basically what they were saying is go to the football dorm and whatever information you need to be successful to pass your test, you

can find it there.

He's got it.

Yeah.

And I think that, that, that's college, but even in high school, I, I feel that at one point that was pretty prevalent.

If the coaches wanted a star player to play, that player was gonna play whether they were passing or failing.

But on paper it looked like that they were

passing.

Yeah.

Oh, for sure.

And that's, you know, there's definitely people that do that for sure.

that's, that's how some people operate.

we're not gonna, That's still happening here in the us.

Absolutely.

A hundred percent.

That's a shame.

It is.

Absolutely.

that's not how we're gonna operate it, you know.

we're really just really concerned.

The kids' success.

If, if we give 'em a break there, what's he gonna get a break with next?

we don't want, we don't wanna start going down that path.

Now, do you talk about that in a value sense with your students and your players?

Because to me, just talking to you, that sounds like it would go against the values that you have for being a, a coach and a.

Right.

No, I mean, you know, the, the easy example is it's, it comes back to discipline.

you've got the easy way out over here on your left hand, right?

Easy way out.

I could go, for example, my weight loss.

I've got a, you know, a cake sitting on that counter right there.

I mean, I know I want to eat it, right?

but I know if I wanna lose that two pounds over the week or two weeks, I can't eat.

and on the right hand, you know, I know it's right not to eat that thing.

I know I can't, you know, if I wanna stay on progress, I gotta do the right thing, stay disciplined, and, you know, not eat the cake.

Now I got two choices.

Which one do I make?

Easy way out usually is one that's gonna hurt you.

the hard way is on that right hand where you know, Alright, I'm gonna stay disciplined.

I'm gonna not eat that piece of cake in two weeks.

I'll, you know, see the progress.

Mm-hmm.

. So that's kind of, you know, it's a long, it's a long process in discipline, but that's kind of how we hold our values to it

now, kids today compared to kids, when you first started coaching, maybe when you were in that high school in Atlanta, which is not very long ago.

Yeah.

And that was pre covid, correct?

Correct.

And, and I don't wanna put everything on Covid.

I mean, Right.

People just change over time.

Society changes over.

What's the difference of, or even when you were early in college and working at some of those camps, what's the difference of what you saw then to where, what you

see now?

you know, we can even go back.

Okay.

So, even use our high school as an example.

I'd say, you know, when I was in high school, uh, we were very, very lucky, to.

Things like basketball to keep hold us in place.

Covid obviously changed that they didn't have sports for two years.

and I think some accountability lacked because of that.

But, I just see commitment levels being harder and harder these days, committed to a, a calls or a committed to a, uh, you know, what you're doing.

and I can, I can trace that back to basketball or academics.

And I don't know, it might be Covid.

it might, it might not.

It might just be, kids have so many opportunities these days to do whatever they want.

especially since I was in high school, and especially in a place like this in Jackson Hole, that we have so many things to offer that not a lot of places have.

so it's different that I see here.

there's just so many ways that are pulling kids to do.

so it's hard to get a commitment to doing one thing really well.

and I'm not saying that's the way to do things.

you know, if you wanna be good at a few things, a hundred percent do it.

but I see that as like, you know, when I was in high school, we had one goal and it was to be the best as an athlete, be the best basketball player we could be.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, so that's why I see the difference is it's just, you know, there's so many different things these days, and to be honest, the social media aspect.

um, has changed everything.

I think.

It's, it just pulls kids in so many different directions.

and to be honest, just, health wise, I don't see it helping us as a community, social media.

it kinda, it's, it's definitely changed since we were in high.

I, I was in high school.

let's just,

I agree with you on that.

And for me, we will keep our kids out of having their own devices for as long as possible.

Like for example, I told somebody last week that my kids get to watch TV twice a week, . And they said, Well, do they know how to play Angry Birds?

It's like, not that I'm aware of.

I've never given.

A device to say, Go play Angry Birds.

Right.

and my kids are nine and six and I'm not digging on anybody No.

In any way.

But that's just what my wife and I've how we've chosen to, to raise our kids.

Totally.

I mean, I think the saddest thing is the, in the world is when you go out to dinner somewhere ah, and, and you see a whole family, a, a kid that's probably, we'll say four or five on their iPad playing.

Mm.

then the older sister, you know, over there on her phone, and then the parents doing the same thing.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, not just kids.

It's not just kids these days, It's, you know, it's not, they see us doing it as well.

and so I think that's part of it as well.

That's sad.

It's also sad.

My wife and I go out, we're we're fortunate enough to get a sitter and go out on a date and have dinner together, and you see two adults out there.

They're on a date and they're on their devices versus talking to each.

I know.

it's a, it's a downfall for sure.

I don't know how we get out of it though.

It's so addicting.

that's, I think the problem with the youth, and I see it as that way is like, you know, while the kids' brains are developing, this is what they're used to.

Mm-hmm.

, what's it gonna look like in 10 years?

Well, I'm gonna flip one of your statements back to you when you said, how do we get out of it, because you just said discipline and used the example of the cake.

What's.

It's easy to go eat the cake.

You might not see the results immediately, but down the road you are gonna see the results that's gonna hurt you.

Same thing with using those devices.

It's discipline to say, I'm putting it

away.

Right?

And I, I don't know all the psychological things behind it, but there's gotta be something psychological about the addiction to the phone, to the social media.

Is it doable?

That's the other thing I, I worry about is, is it doable through discipline?

I don't know the.

I'm not smart enough.

That's over my pay grade.

I'm not a specialist either to comment on that, but I think anytime you're trying to overcome a, an addiction, and that's what it is, it comes down to discipline.

Yeah.

it's just if you're addicted to cigarettes, you have to find something new to fill that time.

You gave a quote earlier.

Learning or, or failing.

I don't remember what it was.

Yeah.

But it, it was, it's the same thing.

You have to find

something else.

Yeah.

You gotta do what you gotta do when you need to do it.

That's right.

That's right.

Take the hard route.

So the basketball program, are you guys

in season right now?

We are not.

So we start, we start tryouts and practice the week after Thanksgiving.

Okay.

and we go to our first tournament December 8th in.

So, uh, we get going pretty quick once practice starts.

And

even though you can't require students to show up to early season practice, can you offer voluntary, clinics, let's say for these students, Hey, it's not required, but if you want to be great at your team, this is what I'm offering and this is where I'll be and

when, 100%.

Um, and that's kind of why I said earlier.

You know, we have opportunities 360 days a year basically.

we let the kids, they can text us.

We set up times, just to get them in the gym.

we're very fortunate we got like shooting guns.

I don't know if a lot of people don't know what these are.

What is a shooting gun?

Exactly.

It doesn't sound good, but it's uh, it's a basketball machine that has a big net you put around the goal, and it just feeds you balls constant.

So we've got kids that come in throughout the summer, throughout the spring that they can make 403 pointers, in about an hour, um, just on this shooting gun.

it's such a good technology that, you know, really translates to games too, is just shooting reps.

Uh, that's what we preach to our guys.

You're gonna be a better shooter the more times you do it.

So we have like a 5,000 made three pointers club, a 10,000, a 20,000.

Made three pointers club, and it's, it's kind of an incentive for, hey, you guys come in, you know?

Mm-hmm.

, you know, and I think this is the year too, that, our theory will be proven, the shooting reps thing will be proven.

right now we're just telling 'em, and they haven't seen it in action yet, But I think once this season happens, we'll have, you know, three of the four or five best shooters in the state.

and, uh, our, our theory will be proven true.

So I think it'll, it'll.

, we, we'll get a lot more commitment after this season, I think, shooting wise.

That's

right.

People, people remember all the shots Jordan made, made, they don't remember all the shots that he missed or see all the shots that he missed in practice, especially when he was

a kid.

Yep, that's exactly right.

You know, and that's what we preach is just, you know, it's a, it's a made three-pointers club.

It's not how much you shoot.

it doesn't count if it doesn't go in, so.

Mm-hmm.

, we want as many makes as we can, and it's just muscle.

as a game, but like most sports is muscle memory.

The more times you do something, the better you're gonna be at it.

can't remember.

I think it's Gladwell has the 10,000 hours theory.

And so ours is 10,000 made shots.

and we'll see, you know, I think the, I think the theory will be proven true this, this season.

That's

great.

Well, Hayden, thank you for what you're doing at our high school and for the students.

for all of those students to help them learn how to study, how to take notes, how to, the importance of turning in their homework.

Cuz when we get people that come to to work for me and they say, Yeah, I'm gonna come show up to work.

We hired some high school kids this summer and out of a three week period they showed up for three shifts.

Yeah.

And they were supposed to be working three days.

Yeah, I know that's, that's the time we live in too.

It's just, it's a little different than, you know, when we grew up, you know, And it, it's also the shortage of workers too.

, they kind of learn too that they can do that a little right now.

Cause everyone needs workers.

well they, they weren't working

anywhere else.

They just weren't showing

up.

Yeah, I know.

So that's, it's something we're dealing with.

I think everyone's dealing with it too.

So, We're trying our best here at the high school to to teach them the right ways.

That's awesome, and I appreciate

it, Hayden.

Thank you.

Thank you, Stephan.

Thanks for having me, man.

And if somebody wants to reach out and connect with you, what's the best way that they can do that, Hayden?

Absolutely.

I, I, I give my phone number out to everybody.

you know, don't have any worries if I, I love to connect with everybody in the community.

So, you know, my cell phone number is, two five.

6 1 6 3 0, 4, 3.

Uh, you can just shoot me a text or a call and love to connect and kind of, you know, see how we can help you and how you can help us and just build a community of, you know, basketball and high school as well.

I love it.

And just build a community of involved people

in general, you know?

Yeah.

Love to learn, love to learn anything.

You know, I, I think the best, you know, characteristic anybody can have is being a lifelong learner of everyth.

just never stop wanting to learn.

I'm in

. Stephan Abrams: I love it.

I'm doing it.

Thanks Hayden.

Well go enjoy your day and keep making a positive impact on those students.

I appreciate it.

Thanks, Stephen.

Same to you man.

Thank

you.

To learn more about Hayden visit the Jackson hole connection.com, episode number 214.

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